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Oils and Thoughts

bobbymoto71

bobbymoto71

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
52
Location
Modesto, CA
Last year I discovered this Lucas motor oil and cleared its viscosity with a local dealer. Lucas used to advertise by specific brand for BMW, Moto Guzzi, and H-D. But now just advertises by engine design. I run the bike out here in the foothills in 80 to 90 degree temperatures regularly and have good luck with this oil. It seems to hold up well, and upon oils changes, doesn't look or smell beat up. I also change the oil filter every oil change (WIX). But always looking for what I don't know or haven't heard. Has anyone any experience with this motor oil or oil filter, good or bad?
 

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Lucas is a good oil, and Wix makes a good filter. However I hope you are using the fully synthetic 10W50 or 20W50 in your Norge and not the straight 50 weight. Also I would stay away from any oil that has Moly. The back story on Lucas is quite interesting as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil
 
The original spec is 10W60 - The 10W is for starting (when cold especially it ensures there is enough oil in the right places to prevent metal to metal contact) and the 60W is for running when hot (the oil thins out with the application of heat).
 
bobbymoto71 said:
why not the 50weight?
Click to expand...
Straight 50 has no place in a modern engine....period.
I find it hard to believe you would give us an opinion of an oil and then run this stuff in a Norge. Are you running this stuff? I pray the answer is no.
If your dealer said it was fine to run then your dealer is a clown.
Ciao
 
Oz1200Guzzi said:
The original spec is 10W60 - The 10W is for starting (when cold especially it ensures there is enough oil in the right places to prevent metal to metal contact) and the 60W is for running when hot (the oil thins out with the application of heat).
Click to expand...
Cool, thanks tony
 
lucky phil said:
bobbymoto71 said:
why not the 50weight?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Straight 50 has no place in a modern engine....period.
I find it hard to believe you would give us an opinion of an oil and then run this stuff in a Norge. Are you running this stuff? I pray the answer is no.
If your dealer said it was fine to run then your dealer is a clown.
Ciao[/quote
Well the reason I posted this because this is a respected product that claims to be specifically formulated for air cooled V, slant, and horizontally opposed twin engines produced after 1984. IT SHOULD BE TALKED ABOUT, especially considering a few months ago/last year it had brand specifics in their products info BMW, Moto Guzzi and H-D. its a fully synthetic and all I can share with you is my experience with it. YES I HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE HELL OUT OF THIS OIL..! It doesn't mean its the best thing or worst thing on the market. All I can do is tell you I have no over heating, leaks, knocks, excessive noise, or metal when draining. SO WHAT SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR.. someone to get upset because I'm not conforming to guzziville?!?! Research this specific product and lets discuss the facts. I will do my part by trying to call someone at Lucas for more info. I have faith that its still a tractor motor from the stone ages. I could probably run this bike with a quart of squirrel piss if i needed to.. lol. Everything is going to be ok B)
 
I don't know about Lucas oil spec's, but I use Mobil1 20w-50 v-twin synthetic oil because of availability and to some extent the cost (nearing $25.00/liter) of the eni(agip) 10w-60. I think any oil formulated for air cooled v-twins should be good. I ride my bike for enjoyment so unless I get caught in some crappy weather while I'm already riding I won't purposely ride in crap weather even though I have the gear. My point being I think there can be a little leeway in the spec's of the oil you use based on the conditions you ride your bike in.
Bob
 
bobbymoto71 said:
lucky phil said:
bobbymoto71 said:
why not the 50weight?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Straight 50 has no place in a modern engine....period.
I find it hard to believe you would give us an opinion of an oil and then run this stuff in a Norge. Are you running this stuff? I pray the answer is no.
If your dealer said it was fine to run then your dealer is a clown.
Ciao[/quote
Well the reason I posted this because this is a respected product that claims to be specifically formulated for air cooled V, slant, and horizontally opposed twin engines produced after 1984. IT SHOULD BE TALKED ABOUT, especially considering a few months ago/last year it had brand specifics in their products info BMW, Moto Guzzi and H-D. its a fully synthetic and all I can share with you is my experience with it. YES I HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE HELL OUT OF THIS OIL..! It doesn't mean its the best thing or worst thing on the market. All I can do is tell you I have no over heating, leaks, knocks, excessive noise, or metal when draining. SO WHAT SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR.. someone to get upset because I'm not conforming to guzziville?!?! Research this specific product and lets discuss the facts. I will do my part by trying to call someone at Lucas for more info. I have faith that its still a tractor motor from the stone ages. I could probably run this bike with a quart of squirrel piss if i needed to.. lol. Everything is going to be ok B)
Click to expand...
What your'e saying is the engine hasn't failed and it "looks" good when I drain it so its a positive experience.
If it was that easy oil analysis company's wouldn't exist and the manufacturer wouldn't bother putting a specific recommendation about what grade of oil to use in the owners manual.
Why would I waste my time doing research on an oil product that is so far removed from what the manufacturer recommends its a joke? Do I have that much time in my life to waste......no.
There, Iv'e talked about it, its a silly idea to use it.
Ciao
 
bobbymoto71 said:
...I have faith that its still a tractor motor from the stone ages. I could probably run this bike with a quart of squirrel piss if i needed to.. lol. Everything is going to be ok B)
Click to expand...

Um, "tractor motor from the stone ages." Seriously?

The 8V Guzzi powerplant is about as far from that description as it could possibly be. One of the "Gold Standards" of a high performance engine, is it's ability to have a output of 100hp/liter or more. The 8V is exactly that. Furthermore, the lubrication/cooling design of the engine, high-compression ratio, combined with the construction technologies and metallurgy used to build it, are state of the art. This is no tractor motor.

If you haven't seen them, there are other topics here where the average temperature of the oil is discussed and it is rapidly clear that the 8V runs VERY HOT and places incredible demands on lubricants.

Although I personally have a cabinet full of the specified Eni oils, which I purchased online with no special effort or outrageous cost, I maintain that choice of oil is a personal matter and there are a million different opinions. However, in this equation, there is only one fact and that is the stated lubrication requirements of the engine as specified by Moto Guzzi, specifically "SAE 10W - 60 As an alternative to the recommended oils, you can also use brand name oils with performance that meets or exceeds the CCMC G-4 A.P.I. SG. standards."

As much as you may like Lucas 50W Oil, it does not, nor will it ever, meet these specifications. Does that make it a bad oil? No. It just makes it one that does not meet the specified requirements of the engine by the people who designed and built it.

Caveat emptor. :)
 
So..

Why NOT comply with the Manufacturer's specification? Have you done the engineering? Have you done the testing? (in a controlled environment?) There have been reports of intermittent oil lamps coming on if you are not using the MGF's spec. That is because the oil pressure sensor is engineered as PART of a system that requires 10/60. I was standing at Nationals in Colorado when a guzzi owner with a new Norge was complaining about his oil light coming on all the time and BOASTING that he was using 20/50 'cause it's "just" an old tractor motor. The tech listening clearly stated that if you do NOT use the specified oil you WILL get intermittent oil pressure lamp indications. END OF STORY!

Fore-warned is Fore-armed... it's specified for a reason... and NO it's not a conspiracy between the MG/Piaggio and "big oil" to get more money from your pocket. Remember conspiracy theory is the first bastion on the uninformed!
 
I don't know if the OP has a 2 valve or an 8 valve, that would be a very important distinction.
If it is an 8 valve then it does add to the debate over why some fail and others do not.
If it is a 2 valve motor then it seems less crazy, really only lacking flow at start up.
Personally I think people get way to concerned with some oil specs (that they often do not understand) and often neglect others that can be very important.
But straight 50 weight oil is usually marketed towards H-D and luddites who are afraid of "new" technology. While I may have views about oil that aren't shared by many here, using a straight 50 weight for a motor designed for multi-weight oils is not one of them.
But oil is such a touchy topic and if you post something like that about an oil you gotta be ready to duck and cover.
 
Hello;

Both engines were specified to use 10/60 oil... I don't think there is a reasonable debate, especially when one side is not presenting any facts.. only opinion based on a data point of 1 or 2. Where as I am reasonably sure Piaggio engineering did a more exhaustive review of the impact of engine oils on their engines.

Frankly I don't think its a debatable issue... Or, the point is moot based on the direction of the manufacturer.
 
Ok fellas neutral corners please. Wow I didn't realize discussing oil would cause such outrage..lol. But i do understand everyone being so passionate. The one on a moto guzzi always is. A lot of us have to got out of our way to ride one, tell people about them when asked, defend them at times, and apparently even attack each other.. well online at least.. I did put an offer out one time but the dude told me to act my age..lol. I'm 40 years old and still figuring out what that exactly is.. lol. Anyways back to the subject matter. Oh and sorry about the tractor comment. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic and to me a tractor isn't always a bad thing (but I get it.. defend guzzi). So when I got to work today I discussed the subject with our parts guy and asked him if he could get someone from Lucas on the phone to answer some of our questions. Basically wanting to know what qualifies their 50w oil to be designed to work in a moto guzzi and what research and development they have done to bring them to that conclusion? So my parts guy now owns my old Jackal that I grew up on, so he was game right away. Yes he too now is a guzzi nut. So after a few screeners we got through to "the guy". He had some really good things to say for starters, such as considering cold start ups and extensive testing in high temps. How his dad rides a moto guzzi and friends ride BMW and what kind of testing took place.. all of a sudden our big boss walks in and.. BUSTED..!! Doods..!.. we didn't get to finish our call. I scattered and my friend tried to play it off. His attempts didn't go so well either. But I will try again starting tomorrow (on my own time of course)will ask as many questions as I can. To get some facts for you and me as well.. yes I still like the oil..muhahaha... rode the hell out of the bird too on the way home 150mile round trip commute everyday. B) nice!
 
A few minutes of Google and a MSDS spread sheet answers alot of questions. It is mostly a grpIII hydrocracked oil. (60-70%). Then you have to wonder what is the rest. More than likely grpII. I would not use it. It will not hold up to high heat like the Agip or like Redline. Plus you still have the slower flow of the 50wt. compared to a 10W when you first start the bike. I use Redline 10W60.
 
Reinventing the wheel? Let's see.. hmm.. who on here is running a stock exhaust, catalytic converter, carbon canister, no octane boost, and of all things a stock map?!?! Let them throw the first stone for doing everything the book and guzzi recommend!
 
bobbymoto71 said:
Reinventing the wheel? Let's see.. hmm.. who on here is running a stock exhaust, catalytic converter, carbon canister, no octane boost, and of all things a stock map?!?! Let them throw the first stone for doing everything the book and guzzi recommend!
Click to expand...


Um, me. :ugeek:
 
LOL.... Rad.. there actually was one.. lol. Dude your missin out on all the fun. Yank that stuff off and go fast.
 
bobbymoto71 said:
Reinventing the wheel? Let's see.. hmm.. who on here is running a stock exhaust, catalytic converter, carbon canister, no octane boost, and of all things a stock map?!?! Let them throw the first stone for doing everything the book and guzzi recommend!
Click to expand...

Me too....!!!
 
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