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8V Failure info.

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Well, if memory serves well, Pete has repeated a lot of times that this is the cooling system and it is completely separated from the lubrication of the heads (me being interested in the 2V has forgotten much of the 8V reading I did)
- wait -
ok-checked it, pages 67 & 68 just before the one with the cylinder banjos describes the system and yes they are described as completely separate systems so the banjos are just for cooling there.
Now I 've read the rumor of the AC engine having upgraded lubrication system and the roller tappets.
If this is so , it will take quit a long time before an AC engine is disassembled at a friendly shop so some nice fella can post pictures...
 
Mi_ka said:
Well, if memory serves well, Pete has repeated a lot of times that this is the cooling system and it is completely separated from the lubrication of the heads (me being interested in the 2V has forgotten much of the 8V reading I did)
- wait -
ok-checked it, pages 67 & 68 just before the one with the cylinder banjos describes the system and yes they are described as completely separate systems so the banjos are just for cooling there.
Now I 've read the rumor of the AC engine having upgraded lubrication system and the roller tappets.
If this is so , it will take quit a long time before an AC engine is disassembled at a friendly shop so some nice fella can post pictures...
Click to expand...

my Stelvio has AC engine and Cams and tappets have abrasion, even not too bad at time, but enough that I get new parts because of this. Occured at about 7000 km. garage changed right side completly and left side everything beside the cam because 1 wrong cam was delivered :sick: .
unfortunatly no pictures of cam and tappets, was done at my dealer and they showed it to me but could not take photo.
 
After turning up and down right and left the problem I think the right question is : the egg or the chicken what is the first ?

In my mind the stripes on the bearings (camshaft and rockers) came after the destruction of the tappet's hardness. Remember the tests made by Pete on 2009 jan 20th https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/196/14 ... =350#p7409
Camshaft hardness = 61 RC - Tappets : 38-40 RC. Camshaft harder than tappets... Obvious wearing after time ?

So the failure flow chart could be :
- destruction of the hardness of the tappets
- sew machine noise coming from the head (left side seems to be the most popular)
- metallic shrapnells all over the head
- bearings eating the metallic parts (burp !)
- end of riding for the poor lonesome Guzzi man

Lubrication could be weak before but I'm really not sure. But after eating metallic parts... are they all in the filter when they go down through the timing chain channel ?

Sergio @ the spanish cow
 
From the 8V Hi Mileage / Good News Stories

https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/196/8871.html




Bought my 08 8v in 2010 with 1200 km on speedo and out of factory warranty as it was more than 2 years old.
No cam recall done until 2200 km when I found out about the recall, the dealer had not done this work prior to me buying the bike.
Had the cam recall done free of charge (as it should be) and injection map upgrade done by another Guzzi service agent.
No abnormal wear was found on the original Cams and Tappets when they were removed.
No engine problems or any other major issues during the 25,000 kms I have done.
Always use correct spec synthetic oils, have checked the tappets 4 times as a precaution and only had to adjust them once (out by one thou) at about 10,000km and no other adjustments required since then.

Love this bike, it makes me smile.

Mark


Mark111
Tuned & synch'ed.

Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:33 pm
Click to expand...
Flaw in the design Don't think so
 
If there was a fundamental design flaw the 8Vs would be blowing out all over the globe.
These guys make engines for 90 years now at a place where the local technological culture produces great mechanical engineers for more than a century. They are not the just enlightened Mao educated China engineer (although they are also becoming more and more mature).
 
I think we should avoid a useless circular discussion about whether there is a design flaw. The fact that some bikes don't go bang, and others do is no evidence one way or the other. The fact is that an unacceptable number of bikes have gone bang, and MG are quite clear that there is a problem.

Their reply to the Club suggests they are still thinking about component quality. But the fact that they think my bike needs a higher flow oil pump suggests something different.

Either way, it would be helpful to understand why some bikes are failing, so that remedial action can be taken, and we can restore some confidence, which is where I think we all want to be going.
 
Trogladyte said:
Either way, it would be helpful to understand why some bikes are failing, so that remedial action can be taken, and we can restore some confidence, which is where I think we all want to be going.
Click to expand...
It takes a very long time isn't it ? We are waiting since more than 3 years....

Just imagine this delay to not resolve the same problem by BMW or Honda...

Sergio @ fed-up
 
TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT, HAS ANYBODY EVER SEEN A ROLLER CAM FOLLOWER ON A 8V GUZZI ??????????????
that is all i ask. Also why hasnt the factory stepped in and answered all the questions arround the cam/follower saga? it is very bad publicity for guzzi {i am the proud owner of a few guzzis ,including a Stelvio ntx, and am very concerned, being at the a-se end of africa, with no backup from Guzzi
Charlie
 
pete roper said:
Jizzus! I would of thought it was pretty bloody obvious by now that there is no simple, trite, easy answer. That is the reason why there has been three or four pages of useful debate and twenty pages of hysterical blather.

Pete
Click to expand...
GIVE THEM HELL PETER !!!!
 
charlietuned said:
TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT, HAS ANYBODY EVER SEEN A ROLLER CAM FOLLOWER ON A 8V GUZZI ??????????????
that is all i ask. Also why hasnt the factory stepped in and answered all the questions arround the cam/follower saga? it is very bad publicity for guzzi {i am the proud owner of a few guzzis ,including a Stelvio ntx, and am very concerned, being at the a-se end of africa, with no backup from Guzzi
Charlie
Click to expand...


ask Mandello if you do not believe users of this forum
https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/190/8828.html?start=20
 
One thing which hasnt been brought up [or I'v missed reading it] Is ,as per the pictures i have studied on this forum, Shouldnt the cam follower be slightly offset to the cam lobes ,so as to allow the cam followers to rotate when in contact with the cam lobe? If the cam follower is central to the lobe ,it will not rotate as the cam to lobe friction is spread across the "foot" of the cam follower, thereby , not allowing the cam follower to rotate if there is any form of resistance to it rotating ,for example; slightly tight in the cam follower housing. If that is the case then all the stresses through the cam follower "foot' are very localised , the cam follower foot starts breaking up and causes the problem? Slivers of broken can follower foot could cause the cam follower to rotate momenterily, thereby spreading the damage over the whole cam follower foot?
just my 2 cents worth!!
 
ferdi said:
charlietuned said:
TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT, HAS ANYBODY EVER SEEN A ROLLER CAM FOLLOWER ON A 8V GUZZI ??????????????
that is all i ask. Also why hasnt the factory stepped in and answered all the questions arround the cam/follower saga? it is very bad publicity for guzzi {i am the proud owner of a few guzzis ,including a Stelvio ntx, and am very concerned, being at the a-se end of africa, with no backup from Guzzi
Charlie
Click to expand...

users of this forum do not agree as to the cam follower design , why dont you contact the factory and ask them , then post their answer here!!!


ask Mandello if you do not believe users of this forum
https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/190/8828.html?start=20
Click to expand...
 
has this discussion died a death? , has nobody got anything further to say about the cam/follower problem? Im confused ! again!
but then again, my hero ,Pete Roper says that there are no problems, so if my cams pack up in the middle of the desert ,i will say "no problem"
 
charlietuned said:
One thing which hasnt been brought up [or I'v missed reading it] Is ,as per the pictures i have studied on this forum, Shouldnt the cam follower be slightly offset to the cam lobes ,so as to allow the cam followers to rotate when in contact with the cam lobe? If the cam follower is central to the lobe ,it will not rotate as the cam to lobe friction is spread across the "foot" of the cam follower, thereby , not allowing the cam follower to rotate if there is any form of resistance to it rotating ,for example; slightly tight in the cam follower housing. If that is the case then all the stresses through the cam follower "foot' are very localised , the cam follower foot starts breaking up and causes the problem? Slivers of broken can follower foot could cause the cam follower to rotate momenterily, thereby spreading the damage over the whole cam follower foot?
just my 2 cents worth!!
Click to expand...
What makes you think it isn't offset? The offset combined with a slight taper on the lobe and a slightly convex follower face generates the rotation.
Ciao
 
lucky phil said:
charlietuned said:
One thing which hasnt been brought up [or I'v missed reading it] Is ,as per the pictures i have studied on this forum, Shouldnt the cam follower be slightly offset to the cam lobes ,so as to allow the cam followers to rotate when in contact with the cam lobe? If the cam follower is central to the lobe ,it will not rotate as the cam to lobe friction is spread across the "foot" of the cam follower, thereby , not allowing the cam follower to rotate if there is any form of resistance to it rotating ,for example; slightly tight in the cam follower housing. If that is the case then all the stresses through the cam follower "foot' are very localised , the cam follower foot starts breaking up and causes the problem? Slivers of broken can follower foot could cause the cam follower to rotate momenterily, thereby spreading the damage over the whole cam follower foot?
just my 2 cents worth!!
Click to expand...
What makes you think it isn't offset? The offset combined with a slight taper on the lobe and a slightly convex follower face generates the rotation.
Ciao
Click to expand...

the fact that the drawings show the cam lobes to be central with the follower "foot" leads me to think that it is so , I am afraid that to have a convex follower face and a taper on the lobe would only make the proble worse!!If the cam was ofset i could work , otherwise not
 
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