8V Failure info.

[lucky phil]

One thing which hasnt been brought up [or I'v missed reading it] Is ,as per the pictures i have studied on this forum, Shouldnt the cam follower be slightly offset to the cam lobes ,so as to allow the cam followers to rotate when in contact with the cam lobe? If the cam follower is central to the lobe ,it will not rotate as the cam to lobe friction is spread across the "foot" of the cam follower, thereby , not allowing the cam follower to rotate if there is any form of resistance to it rotating ,for example; slightly tight in the cam follower housing. If that is the case then all the stresses through the cam follower "foot' are very localised , the cam follower foot starts breaking up and causes the problem? Slivers of broken can follower foot could cause the cam follower to rotate momenterily, thereby spreading the damage over the whole cam follower foot?
just my 2 cents worth!!

What makes you think it isn't offset? The offset combined with a slight taper on the lobe and a slightly convex follower face generates the rotation.
Ciao

the fact that the drawings show the cam lobes to be central with the follower "foot" leads me to think that it is so , I am afraid that to have a convex follower face and a taper on the lobe would only make the proble worse!!If the cam was ofset i could work , otherwise not

Sorry but the conventional wisdom on this is a convex follower face and a cam lobe with a slight taper to get the rotation ( 8 minutes of a degree in the case of a Guzzi high cam engine)
Also what drawings are you referring to,not the factory maintenance manual I hope.
I have seen arguments that support the offset cam and lobe alone to generate the rotation but its not the convention.
The Daytona/Centauro cams and followers are of this design along with the offset as well and I can tell you even on the bench turning them by hand it generates quite a turning force on the lifter. Cams that have worn/faulty lifters and lobes ( and I have seen new cams with not enough taper)dont turn the lifter even with the offset.
Ciao

 

[Will]

Last Sunday I met the technician from my local dealer out on their new Stelvio demonstrator, putting some miles on it before doing the initial service and letting prospective buyers take it out. Out of curiosity when they first un-crated it he had taken the rocker covers off and found it has the new design roller cam followers. He spoke to Piaggio UK and asked for service info for this new version of the engine and they couldn't give him any because they didn't know these new engines were in production! They actually asked him to send them photos so they could have a look at it for themselves.

 

[charlietuned]

Last Sunday I met the technician from my local dealer out on their new Stelvio demonstrator, putting some miles on it before doing the initial service and letting prospective buyers take it out. Out of curiosity when they first un-crated it he had taken the rocker covers off and found it has the new design roller cam followers. He spoke to Piaggio UK and asked for service info for this new version of the engine and they couldn't give him any because they didn't know these new engines were in production! They actually asked him to send them photos so they could have a look at it for themselves.

AND THE SAGA CONTINUES!!

 

[Mi_ka]

.... they didn't know these new engines were in production!

Please verify you are talking about roller cam follower head design.

 

[Will]

.... they didn't know these new engines were in production!

Please verify you are talking about roller cam follower head design.

Yes, it is the roller cam follower head design.
From what the tech said it sounded as if Piaggio UK knew the new design was on the way but they didn't know it was already in the latest bikes delivered to the UK. I guess other dealers have them in stock too but none have been as curious as him to find out if the rumours of roller cam followers were true. When he found the Stelvio did have them he phoned them to get the valve clearances etc for it as he had no info....but they didn't know either!
I am taking my Griso in to be serviced by him on Monday so might hear more about it then.

 

[Mi_ka]

I bet if the relevant parts are interchangeable to the older engines a lot of guys will be interested!

 

[charlietuned]

Im in south africa , and not much help from this side ,but, if someone can find out from what engine number the cam followers were changed and what would need to be done to upgrade it would be great
charlie

 

[Will]

I bet if the relevant parts are interchangeable to the older engines a lot of guys will be interested!

If Guzzi are smart enough (OK, that's a big 'if') they will have made sure the parts are interchangeable so they can upgrade the old engines if they fail under warranty. But I wouldn't bank on it.....as I understand it when they changed the original cam design to include shims for end float the upgrade wasn't interchangeable without replacing the cylinder heads as well as the cam & followers which made the whole job very expensive. But it's definitely a question I will ask when I see the tech next week.

 

[charlietuned]

we are waiting with baited breath!!!!! Ferdie are you reading this????

 

[charlietuned]

ANY NEWS,,,,,,PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

[Will]

OK.....I spoke to my local dealer's tech again when I took my G8v in for it's 24,000 miles service (still going strong and no cam problems!). He hasn't got any more info from Piaggio UK as their person who deals with any technical upgrades & spec changes is away on holiday. But he has now got a parts microfiche for the roller cam follower engine but he hasn't had a chance to compare part numbers with the older version to see changed. This might seem a little lazy but he is still catching up on a backlog of work because he has also been away on a short holiday putting some miles on the new Stelvio in question! I know he will be keen to get the facts as soon as possible because he wants to do the initial service so he can give the bike to potential buyers for test rides.

Anyway.....he said he thinks if the cam carrier/supports are the same part number it should be possible to retro fit the new roller cam followers unless the oil ways in the cylinder heads have been drilled differently to change the way everything is lubricated.

Sorry I can't tell you more, but if I'm back there again in the next few weeks I'll ask again. In the meantime I expect more info will dribble out as other dealers and/or owners get to work on this version of the engine. What we really need is Pete Roper on the case!

Other news....they lent me a new V7 Stone with the new small block engine while my bike was being serviced. It's a really sweet engine....I didn't notice the claimed improved horsepower but the torque was improved. It had a lovely creamy power delivery.

Last thing to report.....the tech loaded a new fuel map on my Griso...or at least when he plugged it in the gadget told him it was a new map, but I don't know what it's called. The last time he did this it wasn't actually a new map, just reloading the same one again. I haven't ridden the bike far enough to tell if it's changed anything much yet.

 

[charlietuned]

THANKS1----OTHER THAN THAT,---COME BACK PETE ROPER, WE NEED YOU HERE!!!!!

 

[Mi_ka]

+1

 

[draidt]

Pete is on a hiatus from this board, He did get the chance to inspect 2013 Griso and guess what it still has the flat tappet design with the A8 motor. The tech your quoting might be looking at a fiche of a roller tappet design . But until someone actually pulls the valve cover off a 2013 Stelvio and visually inspects it I remain skeptical that it has a roller tappets. What we need is a picture of the top of the head for visual proof.

 

[Will]

Pete is on a hiatus from this board, He did get the chance to inspect 2013 Griso and guess what it still has the flat tappet design with the A8 motor. The tech your quoting might be looking at a fiche of a roller tappet design . But until someone actually pulls the valve cover off a 2013 Stelvio and visually inspects it I remain skeptical that it has a roller tappets. What we need is a picture of the top of the head for visual proof.

Draidt,

That's exactly what the tech did....he took off the covers and visually inspected it....and found a new roller design of cam followers. The bike is a Stelvio that was delivered fresh from Italy as their new demonstrator about 2 weeks ago.

I knew there had been a lot of speculation about this re-design and knew no one had actually seen it in the flesh.......so I just said that now someone has and the roller cam followers do exist.

OK, I admit I haven't seen the internals with my own eyes but I don't think the tech at our local dealership that has been doing Guzzis for over 30 years would turn up at an owners club meeting and tell us if it wasn't true, especially as he has had to do cam recalls & warranty replacements on bikes owned by some of us and knows the whole cam failure saga is an ongoing hot topic amongst us.

 

[ferdi]

Will,
did your tech make pictures ?

 

[Greyo]

Pete is on a hiatus from this board...

A hiatus?!
Good grief, as bad as that?
What happened? Or is it too sensitive an issue to disclose it?

 

[lucky phil]

I believe Pete got sick of bullsh*t posts by self appointed experts going unchallenged by anyone but himself.
I see his point.
Ciao

 

[GTM®]

I'm sure Pete is still perusing this Forum, just not posting. There's times in the past he's done the same here before and on other forums as well. He's always available direct e-mail. I'm sure we'll see him back in the near future.

Myself and John Z are the only real moderators, and while we do a pretty good job of staying on top of most posts, we certainly can't read everything. Feel free to send us a note if you see things going awry. Just use the Contact tab at the top of the page.

 

[rustyrotor]

Soo....shattered a leg a couple years ago, long convalescence/rehab, then back to work, hard, found a house bought a house sold a house lost a job, whatever, then pretty much the instant I got back on the bike it started spewing oil from a cyl head. Fog bank. Shocked I didn't drop it.

This coming after any number of other substantial frustrations with the bike, with Piaggio, with dealers, I tossed the keys in my shit drawer, put the batt on a minder, and got on with life. So the bike has sat for most of two years.
Last rode it ...October '11. Yup, that fed up.

But it is a fabulous freakin thing, and I need to either ride it or sell it.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does this thing need in the way of recalls, TSBs, or whatever other weasel words apply?
Is there a pattern to the cyl head leaks?

Heard something today about a casting going bad. Googled it, came up with 17 miles of BS.

Did they ever fix the !@#$%^&*()_!!!! speed sensor?
The next one will be #4.

If this is all too much for my pea brain, what is the bike worth these days? Under 5k mi. I think. I'd know if it wasn't for the (*&^%$#@! speed sensor being made from used TP.

Fires up like it wasn't built by monkeys...