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Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a place!)

G

GBrag

Just got it firing!
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
12
Location
Longmont, CO
I would like to obtain a DB Killer for the Moto Guzzi Termi pipe. Does anyone know where I can get one?

Update. FINALLY! I contacted Eurocorsa, located in Ontario Canada. They are the ONLY Termignoni distributor in this hemisphere. After hearing my/our story the representative contacted the factory and let them know there is a need for these to be separately offered items. He then arranged for one to be shipped to my door for ~ $115 (yes a bit much, but ...) "When" is not totally clear either, but he did mention they are making a run on the MG branded Griso Termis. The ordering specifics are here:

EuroCorsa Performance
850 Tapscott Road Unit 27
Scarborough
Ontario
M1X 1N4
Tel 416 292 3913
Fax 416 292 4063
http://www.eurocorsa.com
At this time it will be special order. Eventually it may be put in their web ordering process. I will update when it arrives. And also post this in a few other threads.

Gene Bragalone
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help?

I doubt it's available separately to Guzzi dealers. You may have to contact Termi directly to see if they'll sell you one.

All the best,

Mark
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help?

Thanks Mark and Bill,

I had sent email to Termi ... no response as of yet. And yeah, I heard MPH but was holding off until I got a response from Termi ...
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

I received my MG Termignoni/Termi pipe DB Killer and (re)installed it in my "new" 2009 8V Griso.

Holy Terminogni! When I took the EPA inspired trash can off my`95 S2 Buell 13 years ago and replaced it with a V&H, on my first ride hitting second gear, somewhat mildly at 4000 RPM, took the bars out of my hands. Honestly, almost put me on the ground. So, I should not be all that surprised if adding the DB killer didn't have some noticeable effect on the performance of the Gris. (Instinct and machoism would make one think it would probably be worse) Actually, I expected a sound that would be like someone trying to save themselves from a pillow being put over their face and trying to smother them. What happened was far from that. The sound difference is more than tolerable. Doesn't sound overly restricted or "muffled" (like my wife's Nevada). Would I want it louder? ... maybe, but, it is not necessary. I would not characterize the sound as anything bad. Some of the harshness has been taken away, for sure. What is left is nice and grumpy .... authoritative, mean but refined. I am happy about it. My fears are allayed. I CAN live with it, for sure. I didn't waste my money on an experiment I would end up hating forever.

On the performance side ... not as dramatic as the Buell's transition from powerless to being allowed out of its cage ... but, it is more than significant, in what can only be described as "extremely good." GONE is the restless hesitation at speed, not knowing if I was giving it too much or too little twist to maintain a given MPH. It likes wherever I set it. GONE is the poppity poppity pop on deceleration ... yes, I actually miss that a bit, but know that it was not doing any good and was a result of something not good (in the case of Harleys, either running way too rich or having an intake manifold leak. In the Gris' case, probably some of the former, surely too rich, the conclusion arrived at after years of aroma therapy being around motors and exhaust pipes.) Gone is the poor tracking of throttle to power and RPM. It is enormously better. It feels like it should. HP wise, gotta admit to being objective and passing on any good that "hast to come" out of shelling out $114 and going through the pain of finding how to procure one. I could not notice any change HP wise... which mostly is a good thing. From the forums, the DB killer should add, or should I say, "give back", 5-10 HP. I surely cannot tell ANY loss, and in fact I would guess if the bike was put on a dyno it would show a broader torque curve, or at least flatter increasing some at the low end. That seems to come from the better more linear response of the throttle. It is much more pleasant to drive mormally. Can't say that it is any different balls-out. There are too many things going on to be objective.

In short, it is a different bike, and none, save for a bit of quietness, of the changes are toward the bad. It is SO good in fact I am in absolutely NO hurry to have the mapping screwed with, which I had determined I wanted (the 068) and was my next plan of operation to get the bike more throttle manageable. It is now all good. It will take some time to assess gas mileage. Based on the elimination of the popping, my guess is there will surely be some difference. How much, or will it matter, can only be seen over time. I will post anything substantial.

Thanks to Pete Roper. I based my quest to find the DB killer on some of his posts. I have attached a picture in case anyone has the desire to try and fabricate something like it. (main mounting is 57MM BTW. I would provide more exact measurements, but, frankly, it was a pretty tight fit and would be difficult to remove easily)

The ordering specifics are here: Price, at the time of this writing was $114 delivered in the U.S.

EuroCorsa Performance
850 Tapscott Road Unit 27
Scarborough
Ontario
M1X 1N4
Tel 416 292 3913
Fax 416 292 4063
http://www.eurocorsa.com
 

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Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

The popping on the over-run is in fact caused by an overly lean condition rendering the mixture in the combustion chamber incombustible. When it is then expelled into the exhaust system it will be ignited by the hot gasses exiting the combustion chamber the next time the charge does combust. Hence the backfiring and the fact it diminishes at certain revs where the exhaust harmonics work better than others.

Depending on which map you have in your ECU there may be further improvements to be had by remapping. If you have the GRS8V01 or 02 map the #68 map will improve things immensely. If you have the GRS8V03 map changes will probably be negligible.

I'm glad that at last someone else has found that I'm not talking through my hat on this. The 8V, Especially the A5 and A8, really do need physical resistance, which is NOT the same as 'Back Pressure', to run well. It is a combination of the cam timing, the very modern combustion chamber design and the side draft porting that governs this. Simply 'Opening it up' won't work.

Pete
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Interesting. I bought my Termignoni for my Griso 1100 new from a Guzzi dealer (a well known one). Its DB Killer looks different from yours, like this:



There are three lines of five holes each, not quite evenly spaced around the circumference. Each hole is about 0.5 inches.

I wonder if the supplied DB killer was a difference between the two seemingly identical Termi pipes for the 1100 and 1200 models (which had different part numbers), or if the pipe posted above is a modification for the new run of DB killers being made available separately.

No big deal, perhaps, but quite a different looking item. Any thoughts about the difference from the more knowledgeable forum members?

Moto
 

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Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

I've never seen any sort of killer for a Termi that didn't look like the stepped, oval hole, type. Having said that I don't think I've seen a Termi specifically for an 1100??? The fact the construction has changed would seem to imply that at least *Some* thought has gone into the design beyond just 'Making it quieter' and it may be one of the reasons why the Termi seems to work so well compared to many aftermarket offerings.

As I think I've probably said before my second choice is the Mistral 'Hi-Pipe'. Even with its dB killer removed this seems to work well as the added twists and turns in the pipe add the extra resistance that will help prevent the drastic over-scavenge and charge transition issues created by open pipes.

The 8V's will take a pipe in stock trim without upsetting things too much, (Norges and Sports have the advantage of a separate cat.) but a dB killer will be a definite plus as far as performance and rideability is concerned.

Pete.
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Thanks Pete. I took another ride today and tried to evaluate the situation more. The thing I find strange is the difference is SO apparent why people who pull there Killers out don't immediately put them back in. I would never even consider it. My bike runs SO much better! ( I even had a COMPLIMENT on the sound :eek: , really! )

Based on your suggestion, I will have the mapping done. I don't know what I have there now. I will however wait until spring. Got too many other toys to buy for my bikes, oh yeah and grandkids etc...
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

GBrag said:
Thanks Pete. I took another ride today and tried to evaluate the situation more. The thing I find strange is the difference is SO apparent why people who pull there Killers out don't immediately put them back in. I would never even consider it. My bike runs SO much better! ( I even had a COMPLIMENT on the sound :eek: , really! )

Based on your suggestion, I will have the mapping done. I don't know what I have there now. I will however wait until spring. Got too many other toys to buy for my bikes, oh yeah and grandkids etc...
Click to expand...

Do you have the ability to check which map you have and re-set the TPS? If so send your ECU to me or Todd and we can reflash it. I've been expert ting with Todd's reflash and it has real potential but he'll be the first to admit that all of the 8V's seem to be different in their requirements which baffles us both a bit.

One has to a) be able to re-set the TPS and b) know what map you have though otherwise the bike will run like a munter.

Pete
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Thanks for the offer Pete, but prefer not to be w/o my bike for any length of time. My preferred dealer is about 30 miles from me (the unpreferred one is identically as far in the other direction) and I will have them check. I have no way of knowing which MAP I have (I wish I did). By VIN I was told I don't have the 068, but that does not always get recorded, I was told. I will get it all sorted out in the spring. It is running fine enough now. I am quite happy. (I live near Denver CO in the US).
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

If your dealer has any of the usual scan-tools he will be able to tell you what map you have by simply hooking up the tool. If using Navigator or Axone, (Or presumably P.A.D.S.) just going into the reprogramming menu will give two options, one of which is ECU Info which has the map designation.

If they then click on 'Reprogramming' any upgrades will be listed. There will either be a message saying 'No upgrades available'or a list of, probably, two maps. One will be the GRS8V68s map and one will have a 'J' suffix. This is a Japanese market only map and I've never dared load it up ad it may mean I can't go back! If I had a spare ECU I'd probably try it.

If you do get the #68 map uploaded remember it is imperative to re-calibrate the TPS after the map installation otherwise it will run like a sack of mouldy shit.

Pete
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

I ran the stock '8' silencer for 4k miles or so before swapping to the Termi sans insert. The improvement was noticeable (sound and rev response) and I will never go back. Are you all suggesting the Termi with insert is the best solution (I don't have an insert to compare)? BTW I have been able to manage the overrun popping when I want to with throttle feathering.
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

In my experience the way an 8V Griso with an A5/A8 motor will run best with the Termi pipe with the dB killer installed and the #68 map installed. I have NOT so far dyno'd a Griso with the #03 map and compared dB killer in or out. Bring me one to do and we'll do it!

This is all completely irrelevant though if the bike has not been serviced or tuned correctly.

Pete
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Update ... second tank of fuel after installing the DB killer in the Termi pipe. The bike continues to run SOOOO much better with the killer installed. It still amazes me. Additionally I am averaging more than 4 mpg higher than I was previously. This was over practically the same driving scenarios as the few tanks I had gone though previously. Currently that appears to be in the 43+ mpg range. You can factor in that I live at altitude ... over 5000 feet and higher because I live near foothills and am often a thousand or so feet above that. Also I weigh in at 230 lbs and sport a 10 lb backpack most of the time.

I love this beast now. Will have it remapped in the spring and add any changes that become apparent. Hope this has been helpful to anyone contemplating returning their Termi pipe to normal.

Gene
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Maybe I can borrow someone's insert so I can experience what you all are raving about? I have the 068 map.
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

FWIW, I've noticed the same thing with my G1100 and the Quat-D Magnum that replaced the stock muffler. The Magnum has a removable dB killer AND a removable CatCon element. I tried running the bike with just one at a time removed and didn't care for the performance in either case.

With both in place I love its performance though. Not saying it's better than the factory pipe power/torque wise because I can't really tell the difference. But certainly not any worse, considering I haven't changed the MAP (and don't know which MAP it's using I hate to say.) The bike feels a little faster than before, when the R's build, but that might just be because I rev it harder to hear the improved sound.
 
Re: Need a DB Killer for a Termi pipe ... help? (Found a pla

Good place - great customer service.
 
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