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Best base for a Caferacer

V

vij

Just got it firing!
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Hesingue, Alcase
Hi all. I am Joakim. I am new here. I have been riding, tuning modifying Ducatis for a long time.

Now I am however starting to grow up and I want to build a nice caferacer. As we all know the coolest caferacers are Guzzis so I have some questions regarding the doner bike.

If I understand it correct the Guzzis that are interesting as a base are "tonti framed". The question are which bikes are tonti framed?

Le Mans, California, 1000SP are all Tontis or?

What are the differences except for the obvious between this bikes? If i look at Californias people are almost giving them away for free and I like cheap. Here are some examples. Prices are in "swiss dollars". One "Swiss dollar" is about 1.1 US dollar.

California

http://en.comparis.ch/motorrad/marktpla ... iii/389144
http://en.comparis.ch/motorrad/marktpla ... 0-c/325965

http://www.motorradhandel.ch/detail/det ... t=zofingen

Here is a SP1000

1000SP
http://www.motorradhandel.ch/detail/det ... &auswahl=2

Le Mans

http://www.motorradhandel.ch/detail/det ... &auswahl=2

So to my questions. Is it any difference at all between the frames on California, 1000SP and Le mans?

Engines? I like big. The bigger the better as I like a lot of torque. Later Californias are 1100cc and that sounds attractive but as they are cruisers I guess that they are tuned for low end grunt and might be a bit agricultury.

What is the difference to a Le Mans engine? Cams, valve size, port shape, compression? Can a California be upgraded to Le Mans status and if so what is needed? Just the heads and what will the gain be?

What about a 1000SP? Is it the same as a 1000cc Le Mans engine?

How about suspension? I guess that a Le Mans has the best suspension, what about the 1000SP suspension? Is it any good? Can the suspension parts be transferred to a California?

What about brakes? Are they the same? If not does Le Mans disks and calipers fit a california or a 1000SP?

To make it short, what should I look for? Here are the differences that I think is important with plus and minus.

California.

+ cheap, 1100cc, spoke wheels.
- suspension, "detuned engine"

1000SP

+cheapish
-1000cc, no spoke rims, suspension maybe?

Le Mans

+Suspension, brakes, higher tuned engine
- expensive, no spoke rims, 1000cc

Any inputs is good as I am all new to the Guzzi world.

Thanks in advance.

Jocke...........
 
Hi and welcome

Quick question : swiss dollars ?? I thought in swiss they use " swiss franc " ?

Anyway.... the first link of the california you posted for sale is NOT a california 3 but a cali 2 .
( it's a beauty the way it is and i won't use it to make a cafer ,just me )

....usually the "best" bikes to build a cafer are 850T or 1000SP because they are not "collectible" and they are "fairly cheap "
I would never use a V7 sport , 850 le mans or a California 850 or a cali2 , because i think they are good left originals.

I saw few nice caferacer using spine frame.... there is a section on this forum where you can see few cool pics.

You need to decide if you want a round engine or a square engine....

Warning : guzzis are not Ducatis.... don't drive yourself nuts trying to get performance and horse power out of these machines, you can build a quick and fun bike to ride....but don't chase performance..
If it's performance your looking for...use a V11 or a 1100 SPORT.

plenty of info here on this site.... !!
Good luck !
Marco

Tonti bikes are V7 (1972 and on ) le mans ( all years) 850 T,t3 T5 sp 1000 sp2 sp3 ecc...



That Le mans compared to a SP1000 is another animal , got more HP even though the engine is smaller in size.

That SP 1000 got 36 mm carbs ! original are 30mm )
 
Thanks for your reply. Yes they use franc in Switzerland. Dollars is just easier to spell :)

For the engine. Round engine looks better then a square engine on a caferacer I think. Which bikes has round engine?

I fully agree that to build a caferacer the base should be a "not collectible bike" as a base. Take a cheap thing that not so many people like and make it your own. Thats why I was thinking about the california is a good base as it looks like it is the cheapest bike in Switzerland meaning the least collectable. What is the difference between 1000SP engine and a california?

And dont worry about the performance. I see an older Guzzi like an old bevel Ducati. Not very powerfull or fast but with looks of charm. Some thing to love and ride, not to race.

Jocke.............
 
Buy yourself a copy of Guzziology, by Dave Richardson of Moto International. It has a wealth of information on all these models, and will help you make you decision and then provide the information on the particular model you decide to use.
 
I chose an 1100 Sport as a donor for this one because it has good brakes and suspension already and the best feature is the nice tank, they are getting a bit hard to find cheap now and I wouldn't want to do this to a mint one.
 

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vij said:
Thanks for your reply. Yes they use franc in Switzerland. Dollars is just easier to spell :)

For the engine. Round engine looks better then a square engine on a caferacer I think. Which bikes has round engine?

I fully agree that to build a caferacer the base should be a "not collectible bike" as a base. Take a cheap thing that not so many people like and make it your own. Thats why I was thinking about the california is a good base as it looks like it is the cheapest bike in Switzerland meaning the least collectable. What is the difference between 1000SP engine and a california?

And dont worry about the performance. I see an older Guzzi like an old bevel Ducati. Not very powerfull or fast but with looks of charm. Some thing to love and ride, not to race.

Jocke.............
Click to expand...

Difference between the 1000sp and cali 3 are "visible" round cylinder vs square .
I believe the bore and stroke is the same 88mmx78mm
The square heads should have bigger valve , they use 36mm carbs.

HP should be 67 the cali , 61 the sp .
Top speed i think the cali is faster..
I am not an expert but the frame should be the same , the only difference i see is the neck area , but geometrically talking the should be the same ( not sure though )

I think the cali has a longer swing arm ( but again not 100% sure )

The cali is a nice solid bike/engine.... i don't see reason why , if it's cheap you should not get it .

follow your "heart" and you will be happy....what ever bike you end up buying , it's a GUZZI !! and that's all matter ! ;-)

Google is your friend , if you type on search image "moto guzzi cafe racer " you will be busy for a lot of time watching all those pics...

U tube too....

btw here is the book you should get . ( the link is just as a reference , shipping to Swiss would be a deal breaker )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUZZIOLOGY-The- ... 90&vxp=mtr
 
As Guzziology will reveal, there are at least 3 different swing arm lengths. T3, T4, Spada, are shortest, Spada II longer, 1100 Calilongest. As I recall.
 
You are located near a very good source of Guzzi knowledge ... and parts, Reboot Guzzi Spares in La Rhonde. The web site is http://www.rebootguzzispares.com/. My suggestion to you would be to call Pete Morcombe, the owner of Reboot, to ask your questions, get informed answers and possibly locate a good used bike for your cafe project, if not the spare parts you will ultimately need.
 
A field trip to Reboot would be very educational. If I was doing a cafe Guzzi I also would prefer a roundhead engine for aesthetics. Assuming you do not have unlimited time and money there are ways to save a little of both. My preference as a starting point would be a late '70s G5. This was the five speed version of the "convert", Guzzis automatic police style bike.
It has:
Short(ish) wheelbase Tonti frame
Wire Borrani wheels
Disk brakes
Simple electronics/ignition/carburation

By mixing in stock and aftermarket parts for more sporting Guzzis the basis for your cafe is there at a reasonable price. Now about that alloy tank...
 
guzziownr said:
A field trip to Reboot would be very educational. If I was doing a cafe Guzzi I also would prefer a roundhead engine for aesthetics. Assuming you do not have unlimited time and money there are ways to save a little of both. My preference as a starting point would be a late '70s G5. This was the five speed version of the "convert", Guzzis automatic police style bike.
It has:
Short(ish) wheelbase Tonti frame
Wire Borrani wheels
Disk brakes
Simple electronics/ignition/carburation

By mixing in stock and aftermarket parts for more sporting Guzzis the basis for your cafe is there at a reasonable price. Now about that alloy tank...
Click to expand...

Okay now I have some thing to think about. G5 looks like a very good base but I have been looking around a bit at internet and it does not look like it is that many G5;s for sale. They are also a bit older (for me meaning that they might be to "old and nice looking" to modify).

I would prefer something that is widely available so I dont "screw up" a nice, original, in the future possibly collectable bike that deserve to be kept in original condition.

Hmmmm. I have to think a bit more I think. Still from were I am sitting (Switzerland) a California 3 (1100) carby looks to be the most sensible option both from a price point of view, looks of the engine and also from a performance. Now I have not been looking at them more then on photos so I could be wrong.

More thinking to do.

Jocke........
 
The absolute best Tonti to build from is a '02 California IMO; https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/162/8583.html

The '00-01 Jackal is quite good too. Modern everything including fuel injection and light years better everything else. They should fall within reasonable price range if you can find one.

Best of luck on the adventure, and post your progress here.
 
Doug from Salem, MA built this beautiful café bike from a V1000 G5.

A short video during the build

After:
Picture212-1.jpg


Picture210.jpg


IMAG0419.jpg


Before:
Picture001.jpg
 
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