Noisy Griso

[AutoGrok]

I hate to hear that some might be dissuaded from the 8V motor because of occasional discussions like this. I did check when I bought my Griso that the tappets had been replaced since my VIN was affected. I've only had my 8V ten months, but I've had 16K trouble free miles. Well, trouble free engine wise. I did have my speedo sensor go out right quick.

 

[draidt]

I hate to hear that some might be dissuaded from the 8V motor because of occasional discussions like this. I did check when I bought my Griso that the tappets had been replaced since my VIN was affected. I've only had my 8V ten months, but I've had 16K trouble free miles. Well, trouble free engine wise. I did have my speedo sensor go out right quick.

Where did you buy the Griso ?

 

[Gav]

Coming out of the woodwork... My Griso 8v bought new in Dec 2010 from a dealer I've come not to trust! Speedo sensor went after 2 months, replaced and OK (by another dealer who have taken over the warranty and servicing who I do trust). At approx 3k relatively sudden onset of tappet noise and warranty recall to replace cam and followers. No problems for 11k or more. One month ago same loud, sudden onset (over 2 days) tappet noise. Taken to dealer and same cam/followers problem evident!!!

Guzzi have accepted to replace parts under warranty after dealer sent photos of damaged items. I understand their excuse is that a number of the faulty parts were put back on the shelf at Guzzi, so faulty cams/followers were installed at the first recall!! To ease things I'm told that the part numbers have been changed to distinguish them from the originals. These new parts are on back order from Guzzi so I'm unable to state whether this is the answer. I'm hopeful.

I will ask my dealer for the new part numbers if anyone is interested.

 

[Mark111]

Ouch
Hence "ONE" of the likely reasons failures have reoccurred.

Gav, make sure they check and flush the oil pump, cooler and oil hoses and galleries before re-assembly even if it is at your cost although in view of the circumstances this should be done for free as part of the warranty repair.

At least they know why it occurred.

 

[draidt]

Ouch
Hence "ONE" of the likely reasons failures have reoccurred.

Gav, make sure they check and flush the oil pump, cooler and oil hoses and galleries before re-assembly even if it is at your cost although in view of the circumstances this should be done for free as part of the warranty repair.

At least they know why it occurred.

Cannot stress the importance of this step enough, All the little bitty ground up metal pieces from the failed parts are still lurking in the oil system only to return another day to wreck havoc on the most stressed parts like the cam followers, If this was not done on the initial failure then it has to be on the list for the second failure cause. Then there is the diminished capacity of the oil pump from the surfaces being grooved with metal pieces.

 

[Pascal]

Another proof that faulty dealers are making the problem worse.
Those morons should be in construction, not attempting at being mechanics!!
Then we have people bitching about a deafening silence from Guzzi, lol...

 

[Mark111]

I think we can let the dealer off on this one, as Gav has indicated that that Guzzi acknowledged that they supplied defective parts for the recall repair.
My understanding and I am happy to be corrected, is that the part number was the same so the dealer would be unaware that the new items supplied for the recall were still the defective cams.
Even if the part numbers were different, this appears to be a screw up in the parts supply chain and should never have happened but at least it is a significant admission by the factory, if correct.
This goes a long way to explaining some of the repeat failures and makes a lot more sense than some of the many ideas previously suggested.
At the risk of starting another 8 valve cam beatup, this and the other obvious suggestion of engines not being cleaned out correctly prior to the rebuild are the most likely reasons for the ongoing failures,
It may be that the Australian and US distributors were only supplied the correct replacement parts from a different batch than those for the Euro distributors.
This would make sense as it is likely that different areas are probably responsible for servicing the Euro market and those outside of EU and this is why minimal failures have occurred in these markets and those that have, can usually be traced back to some form of dumb human intervention.
Mark

 

[Trogladyte]

Well I am still waiting for my high-flow oil pump and third set of cams for my Griso. Piaggio customer service say that the new pump and cam gear will solve the problem, but I'm struggling t understand why it didn't solve it the last time. This is now the second time I've been left without a bike for many months waiting for out-of -warranty cam problems to be fixed. It's sad, because when this bike does work, it's a joy. But the problems have been soul destroying.So far I've had
- cams failed before the recall - flushed and new cam gear
- persistent rattle - changed cam chains - didn't fix it
- persistent rattle eventually fixed by changing rocker carriers
- cams failed again - engine flushed, new cams gear and pump
- cams failed for a third time -still waiting for "high flow pump" and cam gear (again)

 

[Pascal]

......... this and the other obvious suggestion of engines not being cleaned out correctly prior to the rebuild are the most likely reasons for the ongoing failures......
Mark

My comment was axed towards that...
If mechanics are doing the clean up systematically on car engines, why would it be different on motorcycles?
Last time I checked, the laws of physics apply just the same.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Well I am still waiting for my high-flow oil pump and third set of cams for my Griso. Piaggio customer service say that the new pump and cam gear will solve the problem, but I'm struggling t understand why it didn't solve it the last time. This is now the second time I've been left without a bike for many months waiting for out-of -warranty cam problems to be fixed. It's sad, because when this bike does work, it's a joy. But the problems have been soul destroying.So far I've had
- cams failed before the recall - flushed and new cam gear
- persistent rattle - changed cam chains - didn't fix it
- persistent rattle eventually fixed by changing rocker carriers
- cams failed again - engine flushed, new cams gear and pump
- cams failed for a third time -still waiting for "high flow pump" and cam gear (again)

And it will continue to fail unless it is stripped and thoroughly cleaned.

It's had how many sets of cams through it? Jesus! Has the sump even been removed? I'm sorry, any 'Mechanic' will tell you that after an engine has had half a ton of shit through it the ONLY way tomensure it is going to be OK is to go through it top to bottom to the last nut and bolt.

Also what is this 'High Flow' oil pump of which you speak? The oil pump part # changed in March 2010 in what way it changed I don't know but of your bike is post 25/03/10 there is no such thing as an oil pump change and AFAIK there has been no increase in output.

The pump has two vanes, the lubrication part which supplies oil to bearings and stuff and IS filtered but only after the pump and the cooling part which is unfiltered. Both are likely to have been damaged by crap in the oil and unless a VERY THOROUGH clean out of the sump and ALL the oil galleries is undertaken some shit will remain in the engine just waiting tomtrashbthe next load of new parts.

It's not rocket science but let's just lay off blaming Guzzi because there product is being worked on by mouth breathers and the venal.

Pete

 

[Trogladyte]

Well I am still waiting for my high-flow oil pump and third set of cams for my Griso. Piaggio customer service say that the new pump and cam gear will solve the problem, but I'm struggling t understand why it didn't solve it the last time. This is now the second time I've been left without a bike for many months waiting for out-of -warranty cam problems to be fixed. It's sad, because when this bike does work, it's a joy. But the problems have been soul destroying.So far I've had
- cams failed before the recall - flushed and new cam gear
- persistent rattle - changed cam chains - didn't fix it
- persistent rattle eventually fixed by changing rocker carriers
- cams failed again - engine flushed, new cams gear and pump
- cams failed for a third time -still waiting for "high flow pump" and cam gear (again)

And it will continue to fail unless it is stripped and thoroughly cleaned.

It's had how many sets of cams through it? Jesus! Has the sump even been removed? I'm sorry, any 'Mechanic' will tell you that after an engine has had half a ton of shit through it the ONLY way tomensure it is going to be OK is to go through it top to bottom to the last nut and bolt.

Also what is this 'High Flow' oil pump of which you speak? The oil pump part # changed in March 2010 in what way it changed I don't know but of your bike is post 25/03/10 there is no such thing as an oil pump change and AFAIK there has been no increase in output.

The pump has two vanes, the lubrication part which supplies oil to bearings and stuff and IS filtered but only after the pump and the cooling part which is unfiltered. Both are likely to have been damaged by crap in the oil and unless a VERY THOROUGH clean out of the sump and ALL the oil galleries is undertaken some shit will remain in the engine just waiting tomtrashbthe next load of new parts.

It's not rocket science but let's just lay off blaming Guzzi because there product is being worked on by mouth breathers and the venal.

Pete

Hi Pete

I have no idea what the hi-flow oil pump is. It's just what Guzzi said they would fit in order to fix my problem. The mechanic who has been working on this bike is very well respected in the UK, and he has been working on this bike in close contact with technical support from Guzzi. The work that has been carried out is what Guzzi have specified.

I'm no mechanic - I just do the spannering for my son who races Aprilia RS125s - so I'm far from an expert, and definitely no professional. And I have no view on the cause of my problems, nor whose fault it is - I'm not qualified to have an opinion. But obviously I have an interest. All I know is that I have been closely in touch with Guzzi throughout, and have a heap of e-mails on the subject from them. As far as I can tell, we have done what they have specified. And now they are saying that a new high flow oil pump and new cam parts will fix it.

Oh yeah - it has been thoroughly flushed, with sump off etc.

 

[Trogladyte]

Here's an extract from the latest e-mail:

..can confirm that the latest cam parts fitted with the latest hi flow oil pump will resolve the problem that your machine has experienced.

 

[Gav]

Still waiting on parts (cams and followers) from Guzzi.
I have asked the dealer to flush the system and check the oil pump as suggested by Pete Roper and others. Negotiations are on-going with Guzzi to see if this is covered by the warranty claim.
Attached are pics of my 2nd warranty claim for the cams and followers. Although low res photos I think they show significant cam lobe surface excoriation and possibly some defects on the followers. Here's hoping that the new parts (with new part numbers) are not going to undergo the same fate. I'll have to wait and see if my faith is restored in the Guzzi marque.

 

[Trogladyte]

Still waiting for mine too....(3rd set)

 

[Trogladyte]

Stop press. My Griso is back. Flushed, with new oil pump, and the latest cam gear. Time will tell...

 

[Trogladyte]

Well, I've managed 500 miles of mostly urban riding and all seems well. So far.

What I do have now is a slight rattle. I think it may be the "cyclic rattle" that Pete has described. It's quite a high-pitched tinny noise that goes "clickety clickety ting.............clickety clickety ting.....etc" when the engine is hot. Is that the infamous cyclic rattle?

 

[Trogladyte]

Anyone have any thoughts?

I am getting a ticking sound on the left hand side only - but only when the engine is hot.

 

[Mi_ka]

I have no experience on this type of engine but I must say that most engines I've pushed hard enough develop ticking sounds when hot, biek and car engines alike.

 

[brlawson]

Anyone have any thoughts?

I am getting a ticking sound on the left hand side only - but only when the engine is hot.

I had this exact symptom on my Stelvio and it turned out to be a lifter that was starting to get beat up. Fortunately no damage to the cam. The unfortunate part was the bike was a couple of months out of warranty and Piagio would not consider a claim.

 

[Trogladyte]

Well its still going! Just about ready for a 18000 mile service. This is the longest I've had out of a set of cams, so fingers crossed.