Does anyone know the engine number from which roller tappets started to be fitted to the Stelvio? Seems like there is a lot of confusion on this subject.
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Roller Tappets
- Thread starter stromcat
- Start date
af1-windy
Cruisin' Guzzisti
stromcat said:
strom, if you don't have any joy here Pete roper may be able to answer, he doesn't log in here as often as he used to but you may catch him here www.apriliaforum.com he uses his name for his username so you can fire him a pm..
windy
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
I know my 2011 32ltr NTX AC engine. had the early mushroom followers in because they failed at around 8k and were replaced with rollers under warranty my bike is a very early big tank bike possibly one of the first 2or 3 into the UK the sump and cooler were flushed the oil pump changed etc etc and now runs even better the early followers have slotted adjusters the rollers have an Allen socket a slightly later bike was also in bits at the dealers at the same time and it had rollers fitted. From this you can surmise my bike poss one of the last fitted with mushroom tappets so hopefully the latest spec and still they failed it would seem that this issue has not gone away. The rollers look a well engineered solution but every time I park the bike up its helmet off to see if they have started clacking even after 1400 miles since the repair
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
I'm still here, just busy with work and planning my trip to the US with Jude.
As for numbers? I think Paul Mineart has some actual numbers but I have no bloody idea. As I've said before I don't think there is a 'Fundamental' problem with the flat tappet motor. I don't think it will take kindly to being used for short trips or commuting, especially in cold, wet weather but to my mind anybody who rides a 1200cc air/oil cooled motorbike ten miles a day in the wet and cold has rocks in their heads. It'll kill a Toyota Corolla too!
If you want to do that? Roller tappets won't save your engine. Buying a suitable vehicle for the task will.
Pete
As for numbers? I think Paul Mineart has some actual numbers but I have no bloody idea. As I've said before I don't think there is a 'Fundamental' problem with the flat tappet motor. I don't think it will take kindly to being used for short trips or commuting, especially in cold, wet weather but to my mind anybody who rides a 1200cc air/oil cooled motorbike ten miles a day in the wet and cold has rocks in their heads. It'll kill a Toyota Corolla too!
If you want to do that? Roller tappets won't save your engine. Buying a suitable vehicle for the task will.
Pete
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
I apologize for spending my money on a modern motorcycle I throught I could ride when I wanted to
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
No motor will last if it never gets up to operating temperature. Its a simple matter of using the correct tool for the job. If you are commuting a short distance buy a small scooter or a Honda step-thru. It'll pay for itself in savings within a year, will stop your Stelvio depreciating as rapidly. Small motors with a small oil capacity will reach operating temperature far faster and avoid all issues with oil contamination that will cause damage to any motor that never gets hot.
The damage may not be as rapidly terminal on some machines as it can be on an 8V Guzzi but it will still be occurring, believe me.
I only wish I could get one to fail! None of my 8V customers has ever had a problem of any sort with a cam or tappet problem. It makes accurate diagnosis very hard if you never see the problem. As I've said before though geographical location seems to play a large part. The failures seem to occur mainly in cool/temperate zones where people ride all year and winters are wet. If the machines are used for short commutes the incidence of failure increases. Failures appear very rare in places where people hibernate their bikes in winter or where the climate is dry in winter. There also seem to be more failures towards the end of winter and at the onset of spring. There is a pattern.
Pete
The damage may not be as rapidly terminal on some machines as it can be on an 8V Guzzi but it will still be occurring, believe me.
I only wish I could get one to fail! None of my 8V customers has ever had a problem of any sort with a cam or tappet problem. It makes accurate diagnosis very hard if you never see the problem. As I've said before though geographical location seems to play a large part. The failures seem to occur mainly in cool/temperate zones where people ride all year and winters are wet. If the machines are used for short commutes the incidence of failure increases. Failures appear very rare in places where people hibernate their bikes in winter or where the climate is dry in winter. There also seem to be more failures towards the end of winter and at the onset of spring. There is a pattern.
Pete
Vagrant
GT Reference
Pete, everything I have ever learned about oil and engines tells me 10-60 is too heavy to get hot enough with no thermostat 90% of the time. even 10-50 is too much for winter or short hops. Now you would think the factory should know whats best but then again they built the units that are failing.
I just bought a 2010 4 valve Stelvio that failed at 24000 miles. it was re-built right but was sent out the door with 10-60 and the additive. i would really like to have this bike last and really wonder if 5-40 Rottila T6 full synthetic wouldn't be a better choice even though when I start it i always ride at least 100 miles.
Your thoughts?
I just bought a 2010 4 valve Stelvio that failed at 24000 miles. it was re-built right but was sent out the door with 10-60 and the additive. i would really like to have this bike last and really wonder if 5-40 Rottila T6 full synthetic wouldn't be a better choice even though when I start it i always ride at least 100 miles.
Your thoughts?
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Using that hypothesis my bike should of failed yonks ago as it has lived on a diet of 10/70 since new. As I often repeat neither I or any 8V I have serviced from new has ever suffered a cam/tappet failure.
The oil's ability to withstand heat is critical due to the job it is asked to do but to my mind it's actual VR rating is less critical. If you do a search you will find my views expressed on this subject on numerous occasions with explanations as to what I consider important factors WRT the properties of the oil used. The last thing we need is a re-emergence of the dreaded oil thread.
Pete
The oil's ability to withstand heat is critical due to the job it is asked to do but to my mind it's actual VR rating is less critical. If you do a search you will find my views expressed on this subject on numerous occasions with explanations as to what I consider important factors WRT the properties of the oil used. The last thing we need is a re-emergence of the dreaded oil thread.
Pete
So,my Stelvio is a 2011 model with big tank.Don't know if it has flat tappets or rollers.I use Motul 10w60 fully synthetic,do not use the bike for 4 months over the winter (northern England,wet and cold),and then not for commuting, only rides of at least 50 miles.Bike serviced by competant dealer.Do you think I will be safe from the dreaded tappet failure,or should I change the bike before the warranty runs out,which I would prefer NOT to do as I love the thing?
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
I'd guess its a flat tappet bike. Whip a rocker cover off and have a look, its easy enough to tell. I see absolutely no reason to trade in a flat tappet bike. I'd check the ZDDP levels in the Motul and if they look a bit low add a small amount of additive, also halve the recommended oil change interval if the weather is cool and wet,(Is it ever anything else in the north of the UK?) just cheap insurance.
Pete
Pete
Brian UK
GT Reference
I'd give it away before the inevitable happens :lol: . I'm sure I can find several Guzzi enthusiasts in your area who would willingly take it off your hands.
For the right money of course!Brian UK said:
Mark_Sassafras
Tuned and Synch'ed
pete roper said:
Every man and his dog should have a scooter, great fun and just the thing for nipping down to the shop for a pizza or whatever. I got a Sym HD 200 and the grand kids just love it.
Cheers,
Mark.
Farway
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Soooo, is replacing tappets every say 25k possibly an option...??
http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/spares/e ... HEAD&uid=0
http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/spares/e ... 3352&uID=0
http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/spares/e ... HEAD&uid=0
http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/spares/e ... 3352&uID=0
Brian UK
GT Reference
Why would you want to do that? The latest tappets seem to be bomb proof. Of course, if you have nothing better to do with your time and money, that's another thing.
Brian UK
GT Reference
Nah, if it's about to explode, it can't be worth anything surely?stromcat said:
Seriously, don't panic, it's a good bike, and the latest tappets have shown no problems. It will be covered by warranty too.
mrcanns said:
This is also my sentiments.
To me; a modern vehicle that can only be used during warm, sunny days.
Indicates a flawed design.
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
looks like if you have a 2012 or later bike you have rollers, mine poss. last of the flat tappet a/c motors failed full service history only recomended agip 10w60 (which has one of the highest zddp levels I've been able to research) only time will tell if the rollers will outlast the con rods! it appears my bike will be ok now as I'm shipping it to OZ for my next ride out?Brian UK said:
joking aside the motor was the one thing I had faith in, a good many of the items bolted to it have failed or dropped off. Stood beside the NTX it winds me up riding it I love it which is may be why I ride it so often?
You CAN ride it when you want to. You can ride it however you want to as well. But if you ride it in cold/wet weather and you do not ride it long enough to get it up to temp, or don't do what my friend used to do with his Paso and block off the oil cooler(s) when riding in cold weather so the oil would warm up to operating temp, you may end up with water contaminating the oil. That can cause failure in any internal combustion engine, not just a Guzzi engine. If you are getting water in your oil, often noticed as mayonnaise or latte foam, do something about it or you risk major engine damage. Engine damage from water in your oil seems more of an operator issue then a design issue to me, but I am sure others will disagree.
There is not a fundamental issue with flat tappets. They are used in many applications by many manufacturers.
Roller tappets are not so much "better" as another way of doing the same thing.
There is not a fundamental issue with flat tappets. They are used in many applications by many manufacturers.
Roller tappets are not so much "better" as another way of doing the same thing.
Problem is,I am not sure mine HAS the latest tappets.Seems like there were at least 3 versions of the flat tappets before they even got round to introducing the rollers.Brian UK said:Nah, if it's about to explode, it can't be worth anything surely?stromcat said:
Seriously, don't panic, it's a good bike, and the latest tappets have shown no problems. It will be covered by warranty too.