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V7C vs V7S - Impressions

Kev M

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
423
Location
Medford, NJ
CROSS POST WITH WG (for those that don't make it over there):

Comparison of a V7C dual-throttle body bike vs V7S single-throttle body bike

My little bro Jay brought his V7C out for a weekend of riding and we took the opportunity for a brief (and relatively superficial/subjective) comparison between the two.

We've each ridden that V7C (me last year when he bought it) and we've each ridden versions of the V7S (him a demo a few months back), so we THOUGHT we didn't need to swap bikes and compare. We initially just parked them next to each other for some photos and noticed a few minor differences no one had mentioned yet.

But it wasn't until he was leaving and wanted to try one of our other bikes that I threw a leg over his V7C again and noticed even more differences. So we're going to have to get togeher again for extended back-to-back rides on each of these to test our impressions.

Still - here's what we noticed so far.

He's got about 9k on the V7C now, and I've got almost 1.5k on the V7S, so the V7C is obviously more "broken-in" and it may have showed that on my ride.

Meanwhile, he's a bit smaller than I, so he's got the preload cranked down a bit, which probably contributed to a difference of about an inch measured at the rear (HB rack).

But what took us by surprise was the front LOOKED like it was much taller on the V7S, and we THOUGHT we verified that by 1.5" or so taller measurements at the bar ends. Still, the tire size, fender height, slider heights, triple-tree heights all were pretty much the same - so it puzzled us for a few minutes, until we measured the bars themselves. The BARS on the Stone are different and have about 1.5" more rise.

I think it was largely this, plus the difference in rear height due to sag/preload, PLUS the fact that we both have mirror extensions but they mount differently (mine with more rise) that gives the impression of a much taller front end. Truthfully it's mostly optical illusion, but it really DID contribute to a slightly different feel from the saddle.

What struck me the most about his V7C was that it just plain FELT LIKE A SMALLER BIKE overall. I mean that from the perspective of the slight change of ergos and ride height, but ALSO from the perspective of the motor. Yes, the motor may feel just a tad less "powerful" especially at lower rpms, but it vibrates at a different frequency, the sound/feel of the motor makes it feel more diminuitive (not in a bad way at all, just different).

A big part of my impression of his bike was that it was freer or easier in some way, as if my Stone was fighting some form of friction in everything it does - acceleration, rolling, shifting etc. The motor on the V7C just seemed to rev more freely (even if that didn't mean any more acceleration or power, it translated into a feeling that IF we were to shut both motors off and roll down a big hill side-by-side in neutral, I got the feel that his would roll faster). That make any sense?

Part of that feeling might just be the difference in mileage, that his is really run in well and everything just kinda works smoothly together, while perhaps compoenents of my Stone do still need to wear in/loosen up etc. Perhaps a comparison in a few thousand more miles will yield more similar feels.

However, perhaps the difference in the motors - compression/balance/tune - single-vs-dual throttle bodies etc will always lead to some of this impression and difference. I'll be very curious.

EDIT OK, I think I figured this one out - I do think this impression is specifically the motor. When riding today I was trying to listen feel for clutch noises (see other thread) and I pulled the clutch lever in and held it at speed, maybe 50 or 60 mph, and at that INSTANT I thought my Stone felt a lot more like Jay's V7C. It was then I realized, that a good part of that impression is a larger amount of engine braking anytime I released or backed off the throttle. I THINK I'm just feeling the compression difference.


There's no wrong or right here - I enjoyed miles on his bike immensely, and I can't say I "prefer" one or the other, though I'm completely happy with the V7S so far and quite optimistic about the future with it.

Anyway, here are a few photos showing largely how similar they are at the end of the day:

IMG_20130421_132303_862a.jpg


IMG_20130421_132226_712a.jpg


IMG_20130421_132315_147a.jpg


IMG_20130421_132246_685a.jpg


IMG_20130421_132355_862a.jpg
 
Your right about the front end "looking" taller, it almost looks like the wheel/tire is taller as well...it might be illusion but I get what your saying.


I wonder if the higher compression with less mileage contributes to the holding back feeling?

I've only ridden a Stone, one day I would like to try a C to see/feel the difference.


Matt
 
Instg8r said:
Your right about the front end "looking" taller, it almost looks like the wheel/tire is taller as well...it might be illusion but I get what your saying.

Some of it is optical illusion, some of it are small differences in set-up... some of it might be a VERY VERY VERY slight slope down to the left of the driveway. But I also wonder (and I don't think I verified this with any of the measurements) if the worn in suspension on the V7C just sits a tiny bit lower.



Instg8r said:
I wonder if the higher compression with less mileage contributes to the holding back feeling?

I'm kinda suspecting that might be part of the case. Only time will tell.
 
I had a revelation on this today:

What struck me the most about his V7C was that it just plain FELT LIKE A SMALLER BIKE overall. I mean that from the perspective of the slight change of ergos and ride height, but ALSO from the perspective of the motor. Yes, the motor may feel just a tad less "powerful" especially at lower rpms, but it vibrates at a different frequency, the sound/feel of the motor makes it feel more diminuitive (not in a bad way at all, just different).

A big part of my impression of his bike was that it was freer or easier in some way, as if my Stone was fighting some form of friction in everything it does - acceleration, rolling, shifting etc. The motor on the V7C just seemed to rev more freely (even if that didn't mean any more acceleration or power, it translated into a feeling that IF we were to shut both motors off and roll down a big hill side-by-side in neutral, I got the feel that his would roll faster). That make any sense?

Part of that feeling might just be the difference in mileage, that his is really run in well and everything just kinda works smoothly together, while perhaps compoenents of my Stone do still need to wear in/loosen up etc. Perhaps a comparison in a few thousand more miles will yield more similar feels.

However, perhaps the difference in the motors - compression/balance/tune - single-vs-dual throttle bodies etc will always lead to some of this impression and difference. I'll be very curious.

OK, I think I figured this one out - I do think this impression is specifically the motor. When riding today I was trying to listen feel for clutch noises (see other thread) and I pulled the clutch lever in and held it at speed, maybe 50 or 60 mph, and at that INSTANT I thought my Stone felt a lot more like Jay's V7C. It was then I realized, that a good part of that impression is a larger amount of engine braking anytime I released or backed off the throttle. I THINK I'm just feeling the compression difference.
 
I still like the looks of the old motor better than the new one...

Did you have opportunity to measue if cooling has been improved by the new, better, wider and probably faster finns ?
 
Holt said:
I still like the looks of the old motor better than the new one...

Ironically, I REALLY don't like the looks of the old motor. I think the new one looks much better.


Holt said:
Did you have opportunity to measue if cooling has been improved by the new, better, wider and probably faster finns ?

We certainly could have very easily since I have a laser pyrometer, but we didn't know there was any interest. I'll try to remember to do so next time.

Of course, we won't know for sure if any temp differences are because of differences in the finning or because of differences in the tuning.
 
Kev M said:
Holt said:
I still like the looks of the old motor better than the new one...

Ironically, I REALLY don't like the looks of the old motor. I think the new one looks much bettng.


You're wrong. They dont. B)
 
This is an interestng thread.
I don't have anything to contribute, but thanks for posting up.

Okay wait... I, too, prefer the look of the new motor.
How's that?
 
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