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Noisy Griso

Am waiting for my second set of cams/tappets now. But reading this thread, I hear about a new high flow oil pump, anyone got the part no. for this ? And is it different from original ?
 
Well the saga of my Griso has continued. The right hand exhaust cam failed again back in February, so the third set of cam gear lasted just over a year.

Guzzi have taken responsibility for it again, and I have just got it back, this time fitted with roller tappets. Customer service say that they could have fixed it quicker, but replacing with the older kit would potentially have been a temporary solution. They say that they are noe very confident that the roller tappet kit they have now fitted will be a permanent fix.

I hope they are right. This is the fourth time the cam gear has been replaced on this bike. It has also been flushed and filled withfresh oil.

If this kit proves to be a permanent solution,I will have the luxury of then trying to figure out why the bike also cooks cats in the Termignoni pipe-it has eaten two, so I am back on what I personally think is the ghastly original 8v can.
 
STRUTH !
Before joining this forum and starting the "I thought I heard a noise" thread just a couple of days ago, I had searched the site for Griso noise and 8V noise but somehow missed this thread.
It sounds awfully similar to the noise I am looking for the source of, I know how sound can travel from one area of the engine to the other and me hearing ain't what it used to be but in my own mind I had pinpointed the sound to be comming from the clutch/gearbox area, but as all I've found in a complete strip down is brand new parts that show no sign of the 50K they've done (bar the clutch plate which I recon is half way through it life).
I have not found even a hint of metal fouling.
I bought this SE new in 2009, the first to arrive in the country, I knew about the cam problem of the earlier 8V and had discussed it with Tommy (Don Newell Motorcycles) who I bought the bike through and he thought that the Guzzi factory had it sorted, so did I, coz this bike has been used only as a toy and has been thrashed its entire 50K and up untill last week it had only made proper Guzzi noises.
At first I had thought the noise was coming from both the heads (while wearing a full face helmet) and had come on very suddenly during a rare, relatively staid evening ride into the city, but after nursing it home the noise had subsided and I may have deluded myself into thinking the noise was from the clutch/gearbox area.
As I've been unable to find the cause of the noise I have resolved to speak to Tom about it before I reassemble it.
In the meantime I'd welcome any thoughts from others, particulary Pete Roper, who I see has a long term relationship with Guzzi and a prolific presence on this site.

One other thing I should mention is that the ride before, involved a fair bit of nasty rutted, corrugated dirt road that had the Griso well out of its comfort zone, but there were other people around and i was showing off and probably took it too far by powersliding through corrogated corners and I had thought that this had caused something to come loose or break inside the engine or gearbox. But it had shown no ill effect from the off road excusion on the smooth tarmac road all the way home for about 30 km .
 
Hi Fredly. Have youhaed a listen to the heads with a screwdriver? On mine, the source of the noise was very clear indeed with a srewdriver stethascope.

I also get some clutch and transmission noise, but it has always done it, and it's a lot quieter with the clutch pulled in.

It's not a massive job to take a look at the cam lobes and tappets. Problem wear is easy to spot.

I know Pete will disagree with me, and for all I know he may be right, but my personal experience dictates that I won't trust an 8v top end with plain tappets, and I won't trust the roller tapppets either, until they have proven themselves to me by long service.
 
Trogladyte said:
Hi Fredly. Have youhaed a listen to the heads with a screwdriver? On mine, the source of the noise was very clear indeed with a srewdriver stethascope.

I also get some clutch and transmission noise, but it has always done it, and it's a lot quieter with the clutch pulled in.

It's not a massive job to take a look at the cam lobes and tappets. Problem wear is easy to spot.

I know Pete will disagree with me, and for all I know he may be right, but my personal experience dictates that I won't trust an 8v top end with plain tappets, and I won't trust the roller tapppets either, until they have proven themselves to me by long service.


G'day Trogladyte, I have used a stethoscope and only found the expected clatter from the heads.

I know Guzzis are noisy, I actually love the racket they make , but another player entered the orchestra the other day and he's not a member and not welcome, I can't work out what instrument he's playing but it's loud and obnoxious.

I've just about pulled the entire engine and gearbox apart looking for the cause, I had pinpointed it in the clutch/gearbox area and have gone through that area with a fine tooth comb and found nothing, at that point I joined this forum to ask questions rather than just sneak around looking and so far no one has come up with anything I have already looked at.

When I saw this thread I was a bit worried about the cam issue that I had thought had been resolved by the time the SE was put into production, so I revisited my cams yesterday and pulled them out rather than just look and feel like I did initially.
I found one cam lobe and follower (inlet on the right) that has lost material off the lobe and follower foot, the other 3 lobes look a bit odd with a strange circular pattern on them but no material missing, of the other 3 followers 2 have worn through the black coating in the center of the foot, the fourth still has the entire black coating on it but none of those 3 have the gouges and misshaped foot of the damaged one.

I don't believe this is the cause of the noise I'm looking for as one follower couldn't possibly make the sound I was hearing and I have simply stumbled upon the very early stages of follower and cam failure, from my observation it appears that the follower is the weak link in the chain and is the first to fail and it's failure is what destroys the cam lobe because the follower looks far more damaged than the cam lobe.

So in short, I think the earlier cam/follower issue has not been resolved in the SE.
 
Hi Fredly. My thoughts are that you have found your problem. On my last failure, it was onlly the r/h exhaust lobe and follower that had visible damage. The lobe looked scored, and the follower had lost a little metal. The noise was incredible.

I feel rather unconfortable about the whole thing,as there are a lot of folk on here and elsewhere who have not had failures, who think the repeated failures are down to poor maintenance, and that Guzzi fixed the issue some time ago. Its possible that they are right. But even Piaggio customer services here in the UK don't seem to think that. They have recently told me that they delayed repairing my Griso, as they thought anything other than the roller follower kit could be just a temporary solution.

It's difficult to know what to think, as there are very knowledgeable folk who have not seen failures, and are convinced there's not an issue other than poor mechanics. But my bike has been maintained by a very well respected dealer.

I'm really pleased that somepeople have not hadissues. ButI most certainly have. I just hope the roller cams have sorted it. Guzzi should take responsibility for your cam issue. I suggest you get that done, with the latest kit, and then see if your noise goes away.

Best of luck.
 
Just to let you all know that my Griso is back on the road and I'm more than happy.
I've told the whole story of what happened in the post titled "1200 8V follower and cam issues" :cheer:
 
Mmm. My cams went at 18K and had them replaced with the new roller design. Went on a trip to Europe straight after, only to get the occasional god-awful clattering on start-up; on both hot and cold engines. The dealer checked them out on my return and saids all was well but I still get the occasional clatter on start-up for a few seconds - almost like no oil at the top end. I nearly jacked in m-bikes until I saw the Griso SE and have loved every minute of it until these camshaft issues. No-one on any forums seems to have come up with intermittent noises immediately post-camshaft replacement.
 
So in case anyone is interested, it is now nearly 18 months since I had the roller conversion. And there have been no problems so far - the longest period without replacing the cams I've had! I'm almost starting to trust it.

I do sometimes get a loud rattle on start up - sounds like there's no oil in the heads, but it only lasts for a few seconds.
 
So in case anyone is interested, it is now nearly 18 months since I had the roller conversion. And there have been no problems so far - the longest period without replacing the cams I've had! I'm almost starting to trust it.

I do sometimes get a loud rattle on start up - sounds like there's no oil in the heads, but it only lasts for a few seconds.


If the chain tensioners are oil filled, the Right side tensioner may be without oil. Once you get oil pressure and it refills you quiet down. BMW had this issue with the LH tensioners in R1100 and R1150 engines. The R1200s have a check valve to prevent oil loss. The fix for 1100 and 1150s is to install the 1200 tensioners. I don't know if Guzzi is working on an update for this.
 
If the chain tensioners are oil filled, the Right side tensioner may be without oil. Once you get oil pressure and it refills you quiet down. BMW had this issue with the LH tensioners in R1100 and R1150 engines. The R1200s have a check valve to prevent oil loss. The fix for 1100 and 1150s is to install the 1200 tensioners. I don't know if Guzzi is working on an update for this.

I can't test this, since I don't have one - but maybe Trog might see if there's any difference between cold start noise when on a side stand - and on a center (or centre, as appropriate) stand?
 
I just went to visit Jim at Rose Farm yesterday and am considering a 2014 Griso he has there with 399 miles. As a never before owner of MG's, is there anything out of the ordinary I should be concerned with regarding these bikes? I currently ride a 2006 Honda 599 (Hornet) and don't have any experience with MG's but after hanging out with Jim for about 4 hours, I want to do business with him.
 
Well, have you read this thread?
Not all 8 valve Guzzi's eat their valve trains, but if the bike in question is a flat tappet (non-roller) motor it is something to be concerned about. It is likely a roller motor, but you should check.
Personally I would not let flat tappets stop me from buying an 8 valve Griso. I think the main source of the issue is from oil not getting up to temp and causing water contamination of the oil. Some prefer the newer roller follower motors, saying the flat tappets are doomed to fail. But flat tappets have been around a long time, every one of my Guzzi's have them. They are not doomed to fail. But with the 8 valve motor Guzzi did have enough failures to re-design the motor to use rollers.In the end you need to read up on them and make your own choice. I would happily buy an 8 valve Griso. If it is a roller motor I can't imagine why you would be afraid.
 
Well, have you read this thread?
Not all 8 valve Guzzi's eat their valve trains, but if the bike in question is a flat tappet (non-roller) motor it is something to be concerned about. It is likely a roller motor, but you should check.
Personally I would not let flat tappets stop me from buying an 8 valve Griso. I think the main source of the issue is from oil not getting up to temp and causing water contamination of the oil. Some prefer the newer roller follower motors, saying the flat tappets are doomed to fail. But flat tappets have been around a long time, every one of my Guzzi's have them. They are not doomed to fail. But with the 8 valve motor Guzzi did have enough failures to re-design the motor to use rollers.In the end you need to read up on them and make your own choice. I would happily buy an 8 valve Griso. If it is a roller motor I can't imagine why you would be afraid.
Thank you for that feedback...I've been on research overload trying to familiarize myself with MG's and the lingo (I'm not very knowledgeable in the engine/motor department) but what you provided will help me for sure with my decision. I'm going to call tomorrow and get the vin # to be sure.
 
My Griso is with Jim at RFC now for "rollerization." It is a red 2010 you may have seen when talking with Jim. I bought it there for many of the same reasons you found impressive. Moreover, two weeks ago, I trailered it 750 miles from my home at the top of Virginia because I wanted Jim to do the work.

The 2014 that interests you has the new roller system. Aside from that issue -- which is irrelevant for the 2014 you are looking at -- the Griso is the most visceral motorcycle I have ever ridden.

I love my Norge and EV, and certainly miss my Ballabio. I have also owned, borrowed, and ridden all sorts of motorcycles over the years. But only the Griso makes me grin when I even think about it.

Best wishes,

Bill
 
My Griso is with Jim at RFC now for "rollerization." It is a red 2010 you may have seen when talking with Jim. I bought it there for many of the same reasons you found impressive. Moreover, two weeks ago, I trailered it 750 miles from my home at the top of Virginia because I wanted Jim to do the work.

The 2014 that interests you has the new roller system. Aside from that issue -- which is irrelevant for the 2014 you are looking at -- the Griso is the most visceral motorcycle I have ever ridden.

I love my Norge and EV, and certainly miss my Ballabio. I have also owned, borrowed, and ridden all sorts of motorcycles over the years. But only the Griso makes me grin when I even think about it.

Best wishes,

Bill
Hi Bill-
I did indeed see your red one there! :) I just spoke with Jim again today and will be going there Saturday to finalize the paperwork. I'm super excited and really appreciate everyone's contributions to forums like these...it's really helped me feel more confident and secure in my decision. I've have only been riding for about 5 years and all of that on my "new to me" '06 Honda 599 so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the MG's. And Bill your are right...I don't even own it yet and I'm smiling just thinking about it. Now if only we could fast forward to spring.
 
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