Guzzi paint sub-par?

[Zac]

Hey guys, another question for the gurus!

My 2014 Griso is my first motorcycle. It's my pride and joy (behind my daughter of course..) I love to show it off and I baby it. It gets a microfiber rub down before going in the garage every night, I'm that guy who will rub a smudge off my tank while waiting at a red light...hey, it cost me 16k, sue me!

So I have yet to reach my first engine service, I'm at 750km all city driving to break in the engine. I have now noticed some issues with the paint on my bike that concern me. I didn't really look for these things at the dealership when I picked up the bike because I was just too excited!

What I have (see pics) are paint chips (already? no highway driving?) on tank just below the bolt and a tiny one just below the "i" in Griso on top of the tank.

Second issue is "ghosting" in the paint job, looks like smudges in the paint that don't come off. These are on one of my cylinder heads and on the exhaust end caps.

Not being experienced in the slightest with motorcycle paint or owing bikes in general, I asked a few friends about it. They are all Harley riders (no ones perfect) and while I know Harley is famous for their paint, each one of them said it's a bit strange to be getting paint chips on such a new bike (what happened to a clear coat?), and ghosting is a manufacturers flaw.

Am I being too critical? To anal? Just strikes me as odd and I don't really want to pay for a new paint job after just a couple of seasons riding.

Love to hear your opinions.

Cheers!

Z

 

[ghezzi]

This is your first bike right?

Wait till you crash it, then get picky.

 

[john zibell]

The chip under the I might be a warranty issue, but also might not. As for the ghosting, I agree with ghezzi.

 

[Zac]

Haha, ok so obviously I'm being to critical.

Thanks for answers, the useful ones anyways.

Cheers,

Z

 

[GTM®]

Zac, stop by the dealer and discuss your concerns (valid IMO on a new bike, so I'm kind of with you). That said, do know that most of the rubbing issues happen in transit. Unlike HD's, these come from half way around the world, and the packing is pretty light. Things shift in transit, and Guzzi will not honor warranty claims against this, so it's up to you before you take delivery sorry to say. The rock chips are a tough one, too hard to say. As to the ghosting... are you talking about over-spray, or are you talking about imperfections in the finish? If the latter, matte paints are really tough to shoot, and make it a production/assembly line scenario, and it gets tougher. I hear you on paying for a new bike, but if you wanted a perfect one, I'd say you could likely count on doubling the price (or get it repainted and be ahead by quite a bit). Guzzi made the G8V in a red, black or white clear-coat finishes in '09... but since '11 they've been matte, and un-perfect. Even the solid colors had issues with paint due to the plastic tanks, and ethanol. It may happen to yours. I have a coater here in SoCal that guarantees against it if you choose to go that route before a re-paint (which I HIGHLY recommend!).
Hope that helps, even if it's not what you had hoped to hear. It's a reality in the production world.

 

[Spaceclam]

Guzzi's paint looks like crap even new.

Yes, matte paints are a little harder to shoot. But a little painting experience will more than compensate for the added difficulty. The biggest issue with guzzi's paint IMO is lack of attention to detail, and using only the minimum required effort.

Additionally, it is totally normal for guzzis (and guzzi parts) to come with scuffs, chips etc.

Guzzi DOES use clear coat, but it's a strange, and very thin layer that appears yellowish (if you are ever able to get a chip of just the clear). They do not color sand or buff. They just spray the primer, base, and clear (what appears to be only one layer each)

I had my bike repainted, and it looks so much better. I disassembled my bike myself and delivered the parts ready-to-prep. Total cost $400 and well worth the price. Put my Ferrari red 1200 (show quality paint, color sand, triple clear coated and buffed) next to my old 1100 ( factory paint, currently residing at Todd's house) and the difference is night and day.

The point is, if you are picky (as I am) then bite the bullet and have it repainted. It will look much better, and painters will often guarantee their work, whereas guzzi does not.

Although if you are picky, you will find a lot more issues with your guzzi than just the paint...

 

[Zac]

Wow, lots of really good advice!

Good to know I'm not the only one seeing these things.

Granted, it's in no way a deal breaker, I love my guzzi and all it's little quirks. If I wanted a smooth engine, no vibration and zero personality, I'd of gotten a boring ass Honda. Just want it to look its best! Depending on the chips and such I get this year, I might go the repaint route next season, and as a plus, it'll get rid of what little chrome is left on it!

Thanks again fellas!

Z

 

[dlpannebakker]

Hey guys, another question for the gurus!

My 2014 Griso is my first motorcycle. It's my pride and joy (behind my daughter of course..) I love to show it off and I baby it. It gets a microfiber rub down before going in the garage every night, I'm that guy who will rub a smudge off my tank while waiting at a red light...hey, it cost me 16k, sue me!

So I have yet to reach my first engine service, I'm at 750km all city driving to break in the engine. I have now noticed some issues with the paint on my bike that concern me. I didn't really look for these things at the dealership when I picked up the bike because I was just too excited!

What I have (see pics) are paint chips (already? no highway driving?) on tank just below the bolt and a tiny one just below the "i" in Griso on top of the tank.

Second issue is "ghosting" in the paint job, looks like smudges in the paint that don't come off. These are on one of my cylinder heads and on the exhaust end caps.

Not being experienced in the slightest with motorcycle paint or owing bikes in general, I asked a few friends about it. They are all Harley riders (no ones perfect) and while I know Harley is famous for their paint, each one of them said it's a bit strange to be getting paint chips on such a new bike (what happened to a clear coat?), and ghosting is a manufacturers flaw.

Am I being too critical? To anal? Just strikes me as odd and I don't really want to pay for a new paint job after just a couple of seasons riding.

Love to hear your opinions.

Cheers!

Z

Get a good grade of clear coat. I suggest Spies Hecker, expensive but man it is the best. PPG Global another excellent brand. Again expensive but well worth it.
DuPont which imports Spies Hecker from Germany, anyway another fine company.
When asking about clears, one question to ask, is there a yellowing problem over the years also make sure a hardener can be used.
The problem with factory paint just like cars, they use the less costly on the market so it very soft & applying over plastic doesn't help matter.

 

[craigclu]

When pulling the warning labels off my new Norge (white) tank in the area to place a tank protector, just pulling/peeling with a fingernail detached a rather large area of paint (about a 1/2" patch) from the tank. With some trimming of the protector to get the larger sections re-located, the flares of the protector cover the spot. It makes me wonder how bad the paint must be if it is adhering this poorly when new (actually a 2014 carry-over that I just got). That and another small spot (also now covered) seemed almost crumbly and definitely not like cured paint. Is this a known issue? I hadn't seen mention of it but perhaps wasn't searching properly.

 

[Ken Cooley]

No one paints a motorcycle like Harley. No one.

All paint is sub-par. This is why Porshe came to Harley to learn to paint.

So, what's this all mean? Nothing. Just add more wax and ride the thing.

We all love the photos of old bikes in the 1950's being ridden off road and used in hill climbing. Those had
crummy paint as well.
Want a good paint job? Buy a Harley or do it yourself.

Sorry. Just my observation and I'm in the manufacturing business and know good paint. I do it!

 

[craigclu]

I'm recently retired from XXX company and worked in product development on paint/finish-related issues for the HD account. I agree, they went to great pains to only allow flawless finishes out the door and were great partners on joint projects to that end. They were the standard we worked toward for our other customers, which were almost all auto manufacturers.

 

[Ken Cooley]

I'm recently retired from XXX company and worked in product development on paint/finish-related issues for the HD account. I agree, they went to great pains to only allow flawless finishes out the door and were great partners on joint projects to that end. They were the standard we worked toward for our other customers, which were almost all auto manufacturers.

I've owned 7 Harley's in the last 8 years. My latest are new to me Heritage 2015 Classic in black and 2014 Softail Slim in silver gun metal matte. I love both finishes. The Slim is my sons bike. He loves it and when you roll it out into the sun the paint comes alive.
As I've mentioned above I think Harley does paint the best. Only perhaps Yamaha Star is near that.
I'm not taking anything away from any of the other bike painters, it's just facts that causes paint jobs to be costly and on a 10 to 15K bike you can't afford too much so if you have it down you can do it right but you charge for it.
Harley gives you less in other ways perhaps, I don't know but in paint they look great right off the floor.

I like Guzzi and think my V7 Stone 2015 is fine in Red but there is only Red paint on the tank all the rest is plastic pretty much and that don't count. The frame don't count much either because I'm sure that is power paint coated. We do powder in our shop and have learned to do it really nice but it takes prep work, prep work and more prep work to do anything right. That costs money.

If I were to buy another expensive cruiser it would be a Harley. Or I would just enjoy what Guzzi can do on the California or the Eldorado which I think are absolutely gorgeous bikes but not just because of the paint, the style and design is most of that.

If you want paint to last? Well, can't help you there. Ride it like you stole it and enjoy the bike.

Thanks for sharing craigclu, I'd like to learn more about your experiences.
I'll be up in Milwaukee in a couple weeks to enjoy the Harley Museum again too!

 

[Trout]

Just a note about paint on other bikes: Looks like Victory has also gone to "soft" paint on late 2015 & 2016 models. Fair amount of complaints from owners.

I had a 2014 Custom 1400 Guzzi and had paint problems with it also mainly bubbles in the tank & peel on the fork covers along with stitching on the seat and a long list of other stuff. Sometimes you just get "that" bike.

 

[Ken Cooley]

What did you think of your Gunner? Was it a muted matte finish?
I liked that silver gray color on the Gunner I saw locally.

I owned a 2012 Victory Highball with the matte or denim black and white paint. Loved it.

You can't really screw up denim because it looks screwed up already. LOL. Like it's soft.

Vic is making good bikes and Indian is Polaris as you know and their bikes have crummy paint too.
I've not seen a single Indian that had good paint one year later but it could be due to the owner and they way he cared
for the bike.

 

[Moto_Max]

What did you think of your Gunner? Was it a muted matte finish?
I liked that silver gray color on the Gunner I saw locally.

I owned a 2012 Victory Highball with the matte or denim black and white paint. Loved it.

You can't really screw up denim because it looks screwed up already. LOL. Like it's soft.

Vic is making good bikes and Indian is Polaris as you know and their bikes have crummy paint too.
I've not seen a single Indian that had good paint one year later but it could be due to the owner and they way he cared
for the bike.

Working in a Indian shop... I'd say you are wrong about that statement. I have yet to see crummy paint on an Indian. I have seen some questionable spots on Vic's matte paint. I think it's actually an electronic bonding process if I remember right. Not quite paint.


And to the original poster. Everyone else had good advice. The only thing I would like to touch on is your break in process. You said it's only been city driving and no hwy's. Get that thing on the hwy and open it up! You need to get those rpm's up and put the bike through the paces. Otherwise you could be lugging the engine and creating carbon to build up in the heads. Don't baby it, you end up doing more harm than good. So get out on hwy 19 and get up to speed, shifting at or just before red line. I used to go up to the island once a month for my old job, traveling from Victoria all the way up to Campbell River and every stop along the way. I'm a bit jealous of the riding you get to do out there. Gorgeous scenery! Have fun and enjoy your new bike!

 

[Hawghauler]

Some of what is on your bike might be able to clean off and polish. Chips usualy come from debris kicked up by something. Give that baby a good cleaning and perhaps consider a paint sealant. My last Harley, and my wife's came delivered with flawless paint and metal work. I could not find one blemish anywhere and I looked carefully. I sold the Harley 11 years later and the paint still looked fresh and perfect and it was not pampered, it was ridden. My new Indian I can make the same boast so far. Americans are good at painting and chrome. We like it a lot. I have not performed an QA checks on Guzzi, but I would expect a new one to start life immaculate. There are paint treaments when new that do protect the finish from casual scratches. Never used it on my Harley, but did have Indian slather it on, time will tell if that was a bad idea. So far so good. Someday I will have an old classic and I won't give a darn on flawless cosmetics, just want perfect mechanicals. Patina adds character. Bikes are made to ride and the road can be unforgiving.

 

[GuzziMoto]

We have some non-Guzzi's in addition to the four Guzz's. The non-Guzzi's include a Honda ( I vomit a little every time I say that). The Honda is so much cheaper looking and feeling then the Guzzi's. The Ducati isn't bad, but really not better than the Guzzi's. I guess everything is relative.
H-D does have nice looking paint, no doubt about that. They understand what is important to their customers and they deliver. But if Guzzi tried to sell motorcycles for what H-D gets for theirs I doubt many would buy them. That level of paint quality doesn't come cheap.

 

[Ken Cooley]

Working in a Indian shop... I'd say you are wrong about that statement. I have yet to see crummy paint on an Indian. I have seen some questionable spots on Vic's matte paint. I think it's actually an electronic bonding process if I remember right. Not quite paint.


And to the original poster. Everyone else had good advice. The only thing I would like to touch on is your break in process. You said it's only been city driving and no hwy's. Get that thing on the hwy and open it up! You need to get those rpm's up and put the bike through the paces. Otherwise you could be lugging the engine and creating carbon to build up in the heads. Don't baby it, you end up doing more harm than good. So get out on hwy 19 and get up to speed, shifting at or just before red line. I used to go up to the island once a month for my old job, traveling from Victoria all the way up to Campbell River and every stop along the way. I'm a bit jealous of the riding you get to do out there. Gorgeous scenery! Have fun and enjoy your new bike!

I guess my perspective on Indian goes back to the first year they made the bikes from Polaris and from the factory the paint didn't look
deep and rich as it does on other brands. Indian dealer in Indian where I rode all the models had some come in one year later and the paint looked like it was 20 years old. Some of that due to the rider perhaps, a lot due to the lack of quality and condition prior to shipment. I'm just not convinced that the Indian paint on the Polaris product is as good as Harley. But, price speaks to this. I'm not bashing it though. Also, let me note to everyone on this thread that chrome in America is not what it was in the 1970's due to the EPA. There's a rather lengthy story I could tell about this but I won't here due to space and I don't have the time. Trust me, chrome is not what it could be or used to be due to pollution from the process. Furthermore I work for a number of major of chrome plating companies making industrial components for their machinery and I've walked through a number of the largest bumper chroming plants in North America as they have my custom built equipment in them. They cannot chrome like they used to due to he EPA. Even Star motorcycles (Yamaha) had issues years ago with this and most likely still do. Good paint is costly. Good chrome is hazardous and costly. Just is. I think Indian is doing a wonderful job as is Victory and I'll own a Scout and another Highball one day. But for now, I'm riding my Harley, Guzzi and TW200. Having too much fun!

 

[Trout]

What did you think of your Gunner? Was it a muted matte finish?
I liked that silver gray color on the Gunner I saw locally.

Mine was silver gray & I liked it better than the green.
I liked the Gunner for what it was: An American V-Twin that looked good & handled very well.
Maintenance on the Vic's is really simple & easy to do. They don't mind hard riding & will cruise at 80 all day.

Years ago people use to say that Guzzi was an Itallion Harley well I kinda think of the Vic's like they are an American Guzzi.

They are built tough, easy to work on, don't hardly break down, handle well, like to cruise comfortable at 80, get lots of compliments, have all kinds of weird things happen during break in then become bullet proof after 20,000 miles, weird engine noises etc.

Honestly I have no desire to own any other brand than Vic & Guzzi.

 

[Ken Cooley]

Mine was silver gray & I liked it better than the green.
I liked the Gunner for what it was: An American V-Twin that looked good & handled very well.
Maintenance on the Vic's is really simple & easy to do. They don't mind hard riding & will cruise at 80 all day.

Years ago people use to say that Guzzi was an Itallion Harley well I kinda think of the Vic's like they are an American Guzzi.

They are built tough, easy to work on, don't hardly break down, handle well, like to cruise comfortable at 80, get lots of compliments, have all kinds of weird things happen during break in then become bullet proof after 20,000 miles, weird engine noises etc.

Honestly I have no desire to own any other brand than Vic & Guzzi.

Trout,
What Guzzi do you own now?
What do you like about it?
Any issues?

I'm nearing 1000 miles on my 2015 V7 Stone. I really like this bike. I like it that it's a Standard, has that old world European look and
is all around nice bike. Smooth, sounds great, smooth, did I say smooth? LOL. I really like it.
The Vic's are engines that sound like they are growling inside and want to get mean. I put swept pipes with steel baffles on my Highball and it could be heard for 7 blocks when I started it. What a great bike. 17,000 miles in 20 months and two sets of tires. Sold it.
I love Ape Hangers but my nearly 55 year old arms and wrists were talking to me.
I have only one problem. When I buy a bike I say I'll only ride it to church on Sunday and around town. But then I ride it 2,000 miles
from here to the Tail of the Dragon and back and my body says, you are crazy man. That's what happened with the Vic.

The Victory product line is very good.