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serious problem

francod123

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
432
Location
Maryland
I have a serious problem! I was attempting to change out my alternator cover on my v7 stone with a new stucchi aluminum one. For some reason it just wasn't screwing in smoothly like I wanted so I took it off and on a few times just to make sure it was going in right and what not. Well the last time I went to take it off, one of the m6 bolts broke off! ahhhhh! It's now stuck inside the bike and only sticking out about a little over 1/8 of an inch I suppose. What is the best option here? I'm trying to stay calm but shit like this will throw you into a frenzy. Thanks in advance.
 
Status quo for every one I've touched. You'll need some heat(-gun) on the threaded part of the cases, and a set of needle nose vise grips in hopes to grab the end of it... otherwise, it's drill and easy-out time.
 
GT-Rx® said:
Status quo for every one I've touched. You'll need some heat(-gun) on the threaded part of the cases, and a set of needle nose vise grips in hopes to grab the end of it... otherwise, it's drill and easy-out time.


Thanks Todd. I don't think vise grips are gonna do it.

I'm also trying to source those bolts to purchase. Can't find it via the part number on the parts diagram. Some say m6x35x1.0 but they need to be the exact length as the OEM ones to fit I'm assuming, because there's a non threaded section of about 1/4in or more.
 

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I don't recommend using an easy out at all. I've seen too many break off then you are really screwed, literally. Only a machinist with carbide tips can remove the easy out. If the heat and vice grips don't work, it is grind off the remaining screw, center punch and dill an exact line to follow the screw then tap new threads. I've been lucky a few times and actually chased out the original threads. If you aren't conformable doing that, it is remove the timing cover and take it to a machine shop for the best results.

If you have a metric tap and die set (to get the thread pitch), and vernier caliper (to measure diameter) you can measure one of the other screws and find one locally. If you don't have this tooling, then the 2nd option I described may be best. To prevent this in the future, any steel screws that go into aluminum should be coated with an anti seize compound. This probably isn't done at the factory to save time and money.
 
john zibell said:
I don't recommend using an easy out at all. I've seen too many break off then you are really screwed, literally. Only a machinist with carbide tips can remove the easy out. If the heat and vice grips don't work, it is grind off the remaining screw, center punch and dill an exact line to follow the screw then tap new threads. I've been lucky a few times and actually chased out the original threads. If you aren't conformable doing that, it is remove the timing cover and take it to a machine shop for the best results.

If you have a metric tap and die set (to get the thread pitch), and vernier caliper (to measure diameter) you can measure one of the other screws and find one locally. If you don't have this tooling, then the 2nd option I described may be best. To prevent this in the future, any steel screws that go into aluminum should be coated with an anti seize compound. This probably isn't done at the factory to save time and money.


As a toolmaker who regularly has to dig broken bolts out of jet engines and such John has given you top quality advice.

I often make a drill guides that I can pin off of the other open holes, with this one if the guide was thick enough you could use the broken bolt (bolts have a plain length) (screw- thread to the head) as your location with the tapping size, in your case for an M6 bolt is 5mm dia drilled further back.
 
Yea I thought for a minute that the easy out was gonna be stuck too, but finally got it out...without the broken bolt of course. Man, what a pain in the butt this is proving to be. My pops is coming over today to help me try to get this thing out. I appreciate the tips John. Yea, it's too bad I put the recommended thread lock on it too! whoops! Now that I think about it, why does it even need that crap in the first place.

I think if we can't get it out via vise grips and some other tricks, then we might weld a new hex bolt onto what little is still sticking out so I can get a wrench around it. Just the thought of all of this makes me want to go hide in a corner. haha! I went from riding my bike yesterday around town happily, to a fuckin nightmare of a broken bolt and inoperable bike essentially. kill me now! all will be good in the end though hopefully. :)
 
Before you weld, remove the ECU or at lest disconnect it. You might induce a voltage spike in the wiring that could damage it. Also disconnect the dash.

If you are going to apply heat, get the bolt as hot as you can. That will expand the bolt and the aluminum case. Then quench only the bolt and see if it releases.

If you had blue loctite on it, that would prevent dissimilar metal corrosion and help keep it from getting stuck. Since it jammed going in, is it possible it cross threaded and jammed?
 
Just FYI... the factory is not only putting on what I'd consider to be red loctite, but they are seemingly run in with a pneumatic tool, bottomed out and bent, on every 2013 I've touched. Without exception, it's the top right (looking from the front) one that breaks.
 
Well boys, serious problem turned into a big mess for me. Before I get to that though, mine was the upper left bolt that broke, although they all seemed to be bending somewhat going in. What gives? Oh, and noticed that mine didn't even have the top bolt screwed in, just a rubber plug! haha

So, we tried to get it out with some more extractors and what not and vise grips and blah blah blah. If I hadn't already drilled a hole through it we probably may have had a chance to vise and twist it out but it folded due to the hole through it. We didn't even attempt welding it. Then, the corner of the timing cover chipped off in trying to remove it! see pic.

Even though this has turned into a nightmare, it's not the end of the world. I ordered a new timing cover from AF1, and in the meantime, 4 bolts should be plenty to keep it on there so I can ride while waiting for the part to come in. What a headache man, geez.

So I ordered the timing cover and cover gasket, but does anyone know if I need to order the gasket ring seen in the diagram picture as #9? I'm only replacing the timing cover (#1) with its gasket and probably the bushings too I guess. Would rather not have to order the gasket ring as it's $30.
 

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Also, are there any special tools needed or anything tricky involved in simply replacing the timing cover? The engine manual seems to make it pretty simple, but I'd like any heads up stuff prior to doing this. Thanks.
 
A good machine shop should be able to repair the old cover by building it up with weld and then re drilling the hole....keep it maybe as a spare .

You will need to swap the oil seal over from the old cover to the new which could be tricky if it is pushed up against a shoulder ......very easy to damage as they are only soft rubber with a steel outer ring.....once damaged you will need a new one. Best get one in before you start would be my plan.

with any screws .....steel into aluminium I would use an antiscuffing/seize grease/paste as aluminium likes to cold weld itself to screws for a passtime if they are dry
 
Android said:
A good machine shop should be able to repair the old cover by building it up with weld and then re drilling the hole....keep it maybe as a spare .

You will need to swap the oil seal over from the old cover to the new which could be tricky if it is pushed up against a shoulder ......very easy to damage as they are only soft rubber with a steel outer ring.....once damaged you will need a new one. Best get one in before you start would be my plan.

with any screws .....steel into aluminium I would use an antiscuffing/seize grease/paste as aluminium likes to cold weld itself to screws for a passtime if they are dry

I already went ahead and ordered the cover, $68. Got the gasket and gasket ring and bushings too just to be safe...so it came to around $100 bucks or so. Probably still cheaper than bringing it to a machine shop to fix, but yea that's an idea too. I can still ride my bike though at least while I wait on these parts to come in from Italy. Honestly, I might've just left it like it is now with 4 bolts holding it up which seems ok, but if I ever want to sell it then it's a better idea to replace it.
 
I recently snapped off the same bolt on my wife's V7, with none of the bolt protruding. All the bolts were really tight and I edged them out bit by bit, spraying WD40 in to loosen them as I went, but this one just snapped halfway out. I figured that it would be fine without that bolt as all the others are in there (and coated in anti-seize!). I actually stuck the head of the bolt in the hole afterwards so it looks like it's in there! No, I didn't tell my wife :-/

Are there any risks in running it without this bolt? I figured that it's not an oil tight seal anyway.
 
They seem to have resolved this issue with the '14's. First time I removed the cover I warmed the bike up good just in case, and the bolts came out without issue. No indication of any loctite.
 
Take to a real machine shop they will have a tap disintegrator!!!!! (or know who does, this ALWAYS WORKS) There are so many ways to remove the screw (friction welding an extension has never failed in my experience, and if it was a tap or screw extractor someone brought to me it was disintegrator time) as far as getting these screws out without breaking the first time pop them with a pin punch and a ball pein hammer (a small one) and they will not break coming out (even if bent and bottomed then if they were distorted, replace them do not re-use). As to antisieze in this application use copper or nickel only, never the silver based aluminium, and they will not stick.
 
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