Head lamp and alternator issues

[Holeshot08]

Hello fello riders,
I need some assistance with the same issue. Headlamps out, battery not charging and my fuses under the seat and side panel are good. Could someone give me some ideas, no dealer in Montana and the warranty just expired on my 12 NTX...second time this bike left me stranded in 2 weeks....frustrated.

Al fuses in the front behind headlamp have voltage on each test tip of the fuses, wiggles them all with no luck, no lights and still no charge. I also tested all fuses under the seat and they all tested good as well, I did however replace the 30 amp fuse that seems to be the topic of many posts with root cause the fog lamp wires and terminals shorting. I also wrapped the fog lamp terminals with electrical tape. Removed starter cover and checked grounds, all good. New battery and clean terminals, still no charge or head lights low or high. Nearest dealer is 650 miles, so if I can't get this figured out, I will trade it for a triumph or S10. Any help would be greatly appreciated and I apologies if this should be a new post, struggling with figuring out how to do that.

Thanks for any direction in advance!

Holeshot08

 

[canuck1969]

Hello fello riders,
I need some assistance with the same issue. Headlamps out, battery not charging and my fuses under the seat and side panel are good. Could someone give me some ideas, no dealer in Montana and the warranty just expired on my 12 NTX...second time this bike left me stranded in 2 weeks....frustrated.

Al fuses in the front behind headlamp have voltage on each test tip of the fuses, wiggles them all with no luck, no lights and still no charge. I also tested all fuses under the seat and they all tested good as well, I did however replace the 30 amp fuse that seems to be the topic of many posts with root cause the fog lamp wires and terminals shorting. I also wrapped the fog lamp terminals with electrical tape. Removed starter cover and checked grounds, all good. New battery and clean terminals, still no charge or head lights low or high. Nearest dealer is 650 miles, so if I can't get this figured out, I will trade it for a triumph or S10. Any help would be greatly appreciated and I apologies if this should be a new post, struggling with figuring out how to do that.

Thanks for any direction in advance!

Holeshot08

Assuming you changed the correct fuse. When you say no headlight or aux....is this with the bike running. Make sure the 40amp fuse for the generator is not an issue either. The 30 amp is for the lights which also houses the exciter circuit for the generator.

If all the fuses are fine, the next thing would be the relay for the lighting circuit. The exciter circuit for the generator is tied in with the lighting relay. If the relay does not fire, then the generator will not operate. Take a look at the thread I posted on ADV (think I posted here but not sure). It gives the logic for the lighting circuit and how it affects the generator. There is also a fuse for the relay trigger on the panel by the steering stem. If this fuse is blown, then the relay will not fire and you will not have any lights, and no generator. Believe it is the 1st fuse in the cluster (15A) but double check them all. This fuse also runs the coil, horn and a couple of other things so doubt it is is or the bike would not run...worth looking at anyways.

If all the fuses check out, my bet is on the lighting relay. No easy way to check this other than testing the voltage coming out of it to the generator (or changing the relay). The gen wire is the black wire coming out of the relay. When the bike is starter, you should have 12Vdc when tested to ground. You can also jump the green **(correction, Green/white, although they will both work to test it, the green is the 15amp relay trigger, the green white is the 30 amp power supply)** and black wire when the bike is running and see if the gen starts working. If you don't, then your relay is shot. Try pulling it and checking the connection...or my method for relays, hit it a couple of times and see if that helps.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24076537#post24076537

 

[Holeshot08]

Assuming you changed the correct fuse. When you say no headlight or aux....is this with the bike running. Make sure the 40amp fuse for the generator is not an issue either. The 30 amp is for the lights which also houses the exciter circuit for the generator.

If all the fuses are fine, the next thing would be the relay for the lighting circuit. The exciter circuit for the generator is tied in with the lighting relay. If the relay does not fire, then the generator will not operate. Take a look at the thread I posted on ADV (think I posted here but not sure). It gives the logic for the lighting circuit and how it affects the generator. There is also a fuse for the relay trigger on the panel by the steering stem. If this fuse is blown, then the relay will not fire and you will not have any lights, and no generator. Believe it is the 1st fuse in the cluster (15A) but double check them all. This fuse also runs the coil, horn and a couple of other things so doubt it is is or the bike would not run...worth looking at anyways.

If all the fuses check out, my bet is on the lighting relay. No easy way to check this other than testing the voltage coming out of it to the generator (or changing the relay). The gen wire is the black wire coming out of the relay. When the bike is starter, you should have 12Vdc when tested to ground. You can also jump the green **(correction, Green/white, although they will both work to test it, the green is the 15amp relay trigger, the green white is the 30 amp power supply)** and black wire when the bike is running and see if the gen starts working. If you don't, then your relay is shot. Try pulling it and checking the connection...or my method for relays, hit it a couple of times and see if that helps.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24076537#post24076537

Thank you, any idea where the HL relay is sitting?

 

[canuck1969]

Thank you, any idea where the HL relay is sitting?

Behind the right side fairing cover. Don't remember which one is which. Just look for the wire colors.

 

[Holeshot08]

C

Thank you, any idea where the HL relay is sitting?

canuck 1969!! You rock man! You are welcome to stay with me anytime you pass through Mt!! Awesome direction, got lights and alt now. I only need the part number for the Guzzi relay now. Thank you so much!!

Chuck/holeshot

 

[canuck1969]

C

canuck 1969!! You rock man! You are welcome to stay with me anytime you pass through Mt!! Awesome direction, got lights and alt now. I only need the part number for the Guzzi relay now. Thank you so much!!

Chuck/holeshot

Excellent....really happy you found the problem....so is the relay not triggering...was it stuck or did you jump it to test the relay......

Come to learn that always start with the easiest things on this bike...in the end will solve the problem 99% of the time.

The part number for the relay is GU29732550. Use this web site for part numbers. Easier to look up then the parts manual. It is under the Electrical System 1 heading.

http://corsameccanica.com/stelvio

http://corsameccanica.com/electrical-system-i-7

Edit: Finally found an English version of the parts manual. Kept having to translate from the Dutch version I had. Here it is. The table of contents is actually bookmarked so it will take you directly to the page

 

[Holeshot08]

Excellent....really happy you found the problem....so is the relay not triggering...was it stuck or did you jump it to test the relay......

Come to learn that always start with the easiest things on this bike...in the end will solve the problem 99% of the time.

The part number for the relay is GU29732550. Use this web site for part numbers. Easier to look up then the parts manual. It is under the Electrical System 1 heading.

http://corsameccanica.com/stelvio

http://corsameccanica.com/electrical-system-i-7

Edit: Finally found an English version of the parts manual. Kept having to translate from the Dutch version I had. Here it is. The table of contents is actually bookmarked so it will take you directly to the page

Thanks for the part number, I tested voltage at each lead then ohm meter test. Jumped blk/grey with Green/ white and viola!

 

[canuck1969]

Thanks for the part number, I tested voltage at each lead then ohm meter test. Jumped blk/grey with Green/ white and viola!

Ok...so that proves you have power at the 30 amp circuit and power to the exciter, but do you have power at the green wire which is the trigger power for the relay. Just want to make sure it is the relay, and not that you don't have power triggering the relay. If you have power at the green then you can be satisfied that the relay is bad......

Apparently the high beam relay is also a 5 pin relay. The wiring diagram shows it as 4 pin, but the parts manual shows it as 5 pin. If that is the case you can swap the relays and see if the lighting circuit starts working (along with the generator). Hate for you to buy the relay (although relatively cheap) and then still have a problem.

 

[AlanNZ]

Assuming you changed the correct fuse. When you say no headlight or aux....is this with the bike running. Make sure the 40amp fuse for the generator is not an issue either. The 30 amp is for the lights which also houses the exciter circuit for the generator.

If all the fuses are fine, the next thing would be the relay for the lighting circuit. The exciter circuit for the generator is tied in with the lighting relay. If the relay does not fire, then the generator will not operate. Take a look at the thread I posted on ADV (think I posted here but not sure). It gives the logic for the lighting circuit and how it affects the generator. There is also a fuse for the relay trigger on the panel by the steering stem. If this fuse is blown, then the relay will not fire and you will not have any lights, and no generator. Believe it is the 1st fuse in the cluster (15A) but double check them all. This fuse also runs the coil, horn and a couple of other things so doubt it is is or the bike would not run...worth looking at anyways.

If all the fuses check out, my bet is on the lighting relay. No easy way to check this other than testing the voltage coming out of it to the generator (or changing the relay). The gen wire is the black wire coming out of the relay. When the bike is starter, you should have 12Vdc when tested to ground. You can also jump the green **(correction, Green/white, although they will both work to test it, the green is the 15amp relay trigger, the green white is the 30 amp power supply)** and black wire when the bike is running and see if the gen starts working. If you don't, then your relay is shot. Try pulling it and checking the connection...or my method for relays, hit it a couple of times and see if that helps.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24076537#post24076537

Reading this with interest in case I ever get stranded. Dumb question: what is the generator exciter circuit?
I did lose my headlights once and found this to be one of the lighting relays. Discovered this by tapping each rely with a screwdriver and the lights came on. To complicate the situation when I was trying to find the cause, the wire colours were not the same as the wiring diagram. I carry spare relays now just in case. Got to love Italian electrics!
Regards
Alan NZ

 

[canuck1969]

Reading this with interest in case I ever get stranded. Dumb question: what is the generator exciter circuit?
I did lose my headlights once and found this to be one of the lighting relays. Discovered this by tapping each rely with a screwdriver and the lights came on. To complicate the situation when I was trying to find the cause, the wire colours were not the same as the wiring diagram. I carry spare relays now just in case. Got to love Italian electrics!
Regards
Alan NZ

The exciter power to the alternator provides a electrical field to produce power. Instead of using magnets to provide an electrical field it uses and exciter coil. The power from the relay "excites" this coil produces a magnetic field and allows the alternator to produce power. Without it, it is like pulling the magnets out of a generator and then asking it to make power....won't work. This makes it possible to vary the output of power based on the needs of the bike with the help of the regulator.

I have added a voltage indicator light to the bike for this reason. Never know when it will happen again, even if you remove the Aux lights.

 

[AlanNZ]

Thanks for the explanation. What sort of voltage indicator and where connected to?

 

[canuck1969]

Thanks for the explanation. What sort of voltage indicator and where connected to?

I bought one of the single LED models from these guys. The nice thing about these is they monitor voltage and charge. You hook it directly to the battery and then one wire to a switched power source. The light colour depends on if the bike is running or not based on the voltages it should be at. There is a description on the site. Cheap and effective.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Motorcycle-B...-indicator-warning-alarm-bike-G-/200826330214

 

[canuck1969]

I bought one of the single LED models from these guys. The nice thing about these is they monitor voltage and charge. You hook it directly to the battery and then one wire to a switched power source. The light colour depends on if the bike is running or not based on the voltages it should be at. There is a description on the site. Cheap and effective.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Motorcycle-B...-indicator-warning-alarm-bike-G-/200826330214

Ebay Store: http://stores.ebay.ca/gammatronixlt...ED-Voltage-Monitors-/_i.html?_fsub=2719603013

 

[uzidzit]

you are not really done trouble shooting this circuit, I fought with the condition you describe for the entire time my '12ntx has been rideable, and you need to check the signal voltage (and current avail) coming into the relay from left grip switch, the switch shows the signal voltage to the relay first. if you jumper the relay out (I missed exactly how you did it) you can bypass the loss in the gripswitch and it will appear to be the relay when it was the switch. on us '12 models there was a run of bad switches (the mold was distorted for the switch housing) and they break contact...this mimics a bad relay. The 12s if it was an early one also have a wire routing problem that puts the harness in a place where it is prone to chaffing on the right frame guusset and guess what circuit is in that part of the bundel. my Bike would supply the correct signal voltage to the relay but the switch internal contact was so poor the relay load would make it break down and drop out.

The switch condition is indicated if when you start the bike, there is a delay in the lights coming on, (longer than the normal delay) this gets worse riding in damp or rain.

ps no sense adding a battery charge monitor on this bike, there is one avail in the menu that can be left up.

 

[canuck1969]

I don't see that logic in the wiring diagram but that is why I ask him to check the trigger power for the lighting relay. Believe he did that and it was good, but he has not confirmed it. This is the main lighting relay, not the high beam relay. He jumped the main power to the lighting relay (which is also the main power in parallel for the other relays) and black (black/grey) wire. This sends power directly to the alternator and the high/low beam switch, but in parallel. The other side of the switch triggers the HB relay only. The trigger power for the lighting relay does supply the Pass HB pull switch but again in parallel and the other side of this switch again triggers the HB relay. So even if the switch (either one) stuck or broke contact you would not loose power to the exciter circuit that is on the main lighting relay. So if the switches were faulty, it would affect the HB relay only. I can't see how the main lighting relay can be affected by the HB switch.

As for the charge monitor, only if you want the volt meter in the menu up all the time. I prefer to have my trip meter up. The light gives you constant monitoring of the voltage. Important if you run a lot of electrics. If you don't think you need it, then don't buy it. IMHO, functional item that gives me peace of mind all the time.

The chaffing harness should have been covered in a TSB. If you need it let me know and I will send it to you.