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Larry B's 2013 V7 chronic-als

larry B

Just got it firing!
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Elizabeth City, NC
I have always been a Honda guy but after killing a deer with my 919 I thought I would try something different. I have about 3500 miles and ride 25 miles to work everyday. The little V7 runs great when it's warmed up, but when I get off work at midnight and go to start it the thing will surge and sometimes die. After about a minute or so it starts to smooth out and will hold a good idle.
I always let it warm up for at least 3 or 4 minutes before I ride it and by then the idle is normal.
I am used to my old Honda which I could start after work with the temp being 35 deg and the engine would idle smooth as silk with no choke applied.
It has no choke or enrichment system, am I the only one that has this problem? Am I doing something wrong?
Larry B
 
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Larry, welcome to the Forum, and congrats on the V7. No you are not doing anything wrong. Stock Guzzis are pretty cold blooded. That said, I recommend making sure the TPS is within spec (electronically reset only; Dealer or the Centurion-S Diagnostic Kit I offer >HERE<), and that the valve lash is properly set. Both of these items are often overlooked at most service intervals (even from the dealer), and can be a big cause of this issue.
 
I had a similar problem with my 2013 v7s. Last week I had the dealer flash the bike with new fuel mappings, and the difference was significant. No more surging on start up, and much better torque through the mid range than before the update.

Joe
 
Hi Joe,
Thank you for the repy, I have a question for you, did the dealer disconnect your O2 sensor from the ECU? I just had my bike done by Red Line in Yorktown and they told me over the phone that they had disconnected the O2 sensor. I don't have a warm fuzzy after hearing that!
 
Hi Larry,

He did not. All was left as stock. I had just asked for a reflash since I had seen some posts where folks noticed a difference with the 2014 maps. Surges at low speed would drive me crazy.


Joe
 
Hi Joe,
I have a question for you or any other owner with experience, which O2 sensor do you install the manipulator in? I have a O2 sensor in both the L/H and R/H exhaust pipes, so does it matter which one I tap into?
I have opted to try the O2 option before going all the way with a full "rip the ECU out and send it to Todd" , This bike now ranks as my biggest mistake ever when it comes to vehicles, it's to bad MG imports such crap into the USA.
 
Hi Joe,
I have a question for you or any other owner with experience, which O2 sensor do you install the manipulator in? I have a O2 sensor in both the L/H and R/H exhaust pipes, so does it matter which one I tap into?
I have opted to try the O2 option before going all the way with a full "rip the ECU out and send it to Todd" , This bike now ranks as my biggest mistake ever when it comes to vehicles, it's to bad MG imports such crap into the USA.

To each his/her own. Is it crap because of a cold start surge that can be eliminated by a simple reflash? For the record, my V7 Stone has no such problem, or any other problem that would cause me to classify it as "crap". I've put 9000 very enjoyable miles on it and would happily buy it again (I will probably will buy another one as soon as they can be had with ABS).
 
A simple reflash? I don't consider taking the entire throttle body/ECU out of the bike a simple task. Then mailing it off to Todd for him to reflash it is only the first step. After I reinstall the throttle body/ ECU back in the bike, it still won't run because of the throttle position sensor needs to be re-set. So I will have to spend another $300 or $400 on the special diagnostic equipment that allows me to do that, then after I have stumbled thru all this it should run.
So yea, as a brand new bike, it's a piece of crap.
Another indicator, just read down this V7 forum, Warning! Fuel filter problems, Charging problems! Idle problems ect, ect.......
 
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Sorry I don't have enough knowledge to really comment on the fueling questions. I did notice the surges, and the reflash did help. I still let it warm up a little (60 seconds or so), but I consider that normal for a bike.

I've had a blast on the bike. The suspension has really been my only issue. I've put a ton of time into it, but seeing that others have sorted it out, I am still working at it versus throwing in the towel and getting a different bike. That option is still valid though ...
 
Hi Larry, not all V7s do the stalling thing but I have heard of several that did so I suspect it all comes down to the fact that the EPA requirements put the engine right on the ragged edge of running like crap. If anything is just a bit out of spec they don't run right. Mine never did the stalling trick. I'd like to explain the O2 sensors and how they fit into the fueling, might help you make sense of what your options are. The O2 sensors are narrow band, that is, they only tell the ECU if the exhaust O2 target is being met. They don't tell what the actual reading is, just that it's too lean or too rich. Any attempt to change the map to make the bike run better is going to run up against that sensor output so if you tell the ECU to get richer (and run better) the sensor will say "Whoa buddy, get lean!" and override the map. If you install a spoofer all you are doing is adjusting the signal from the sensor so it will want the ECU to run richer across the board, whether you need it or not. (My own bike ran super lean at low rpms, went very rich, then back to lean, and finally very rich as the rpms went up. ) You could easily create a huge problem for yourself. Add to that the fact that there are two O2 sensors and they provide feedback for two injectors...you might cause one cylinder to run super rich and the other to run super lean if you only install one spoofer. The reason to delete the O2 sensors is that you can then run a map that makes the engine run at the best possible air/fuel ration throughout the rpm range, without the sensors screwing up that map. I suspect Todd is doing that with his re-flash since everyone seems to be very happy with the results.
 
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I thought that Todd left the O2 sensors active when he did his re-flash. I had Red Line (the dealer where I bought the bike) re-flash my ECU and then told them to put it back when I found out that they had taken the O2 sensors "off line" .
Maybe I missunderstood Todd when he said that he left the sensors in the loop. I thought Todd had told me that taking the sensors out of the loop was not a good thing to do.
So is it true that each O2 sensor can change the mixture for it's respective cylinder? If this is true then I would need two manipulators, one for each exhaust sensor.
It seems every avenue I try is a dead end with this piece of crap bike.
 
But that crap bike has character. My 13 Stone would stumble when cold, not idle, etc just like yours. Now with 5k plus miles on the ODO including 500 or more track miles none of these issues exist. No re-flash, no disconnecting the O2 sensors, no magic.

All is still not perfect. There does appear to be a vapor lock issue. When riding back east in mainly stop and some go traffic like Daytona bike week there appears to be a good hot soak of the gas tank. It does not stall while in traffic. After parking in the hot Florida sun it becomes hard to restart and will die even when holding the throttle above 2k rpm. It does eventually run normal. I plan on insulating the under surface of the tank and the fuel hoses with some of the reflective materials designed to shield those specific areas. It dosn't seem to be a issue here in California where we keep moving between the lanes.

It's a nice street bike.
 
My 2007 Norge had a similar problem. Removing the evaporate canister and associated check valve (tip valve?) Cured it. Seems the pressure build up in the tank was not appreciated by the system. I just vernted the tank to the air as was done for many years. Maybe in California this would be harder to get away with but I would at least remove the check valve and try it.
 
fwillink,
I only have about 4000 miles on mine so you have given me some hope! I did take the bike back to the dealer again, it has been over two weeks now waiting on a new ECU/throttle body to be shipped from Italy. The dealer told me when I bought the thing that all the parts are stocked here in the US, one again they were wrong.
Apparently the throttle position sensor reads in tenth's of an degree, finally the mechanic hooked up some diagnostic equipment and found that the TPS will jump from 2.6 to 12.8 which indicates a big dead spot in the TPS. Since the newer bikes have one big unit which is fused together the ECU and Throttle body have to be replaced. Now all I can do is wait for the slow boat from Italy until my part gets here.
Should have bought a Honda!
Larry
 
fwillink,
I only have about 4000 miles on mine so you have given me some hope! I did take the bike back to the dealer again, it has been over two weeks now waiting on a new ECU/throttle body to be shipped from Italy. The dealer told me when I bought the thing that all the parts are stocked here in the US, one again they were wrong.
Apparently the throttle position sensor reads in tenth's of an degree, finally the mechanic hooked up some diagnostic equipment and found that the TPS will jump from 2.6 to 12.8 which indicates a big dead spot in the TPS. Since the newer bikes have one big unit which is fused together the ECU and Throttle body have to be replaced. Now all I can do is wait for the slow boat from Italy until my part gets here.
Should have bought a Honda!
Larry
Sounds like a faulty TPS, all right. Although the distributor may not stock the unit, I think it is stocked by some of the larger Guzzi parts suppliers, such as Pro Italia and Corsa Meccanica. You could ask.
 
sib, on the single throttle body V7s there is no separate TPS, it's all built into the ECU/Throttle body. You can't get a TPS for this bike because that part does not exist.
 
sib, on the single throttle body V7s there is no separate TPS, it's all built into the ECU/Throttle body. You can't get a TPS for this bike because that part does not exist.

I was referring to the whole ECU/Throttle Body unit, not the TPS itself, sorry if I didn't make that clear. They're pricey, but they do seem to be available without special ordering.
 
Well I just got a call from the dealer and they told me that there are no ECU/Throttle body parts in the whole USA. Also they told me that Moto Guzzi will not ship parts until they have a full crate of parts. When I asked them for even a rough time frame I was told this could run into months.
So much for stocking all the parts here in the US!

Man I should have bought another Honda!
Larry B
 
Just a quick update, I'm still waiting for the part. The bike has been in the shop since Sept 16th. I am being told that the part MAY be in the USA around the end of Oct. Then it still has to get to the dealer, be installed, and then it might actually run.

Moto Guzzie's are sure great bikes!
 
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