02 EV mystery leak

[fisherguzzi]

I am somewhat new to this site and I am not real technical so apologies upfront.

I have 56k on my 2002 EV and this morning I noticed a big spot of oil underneath it. This is a first. I think it is oil and it might be a bit watery. My friend thought so too. It is coming from somewhere under the centerstand. I think it may have come from one of two rubber hoses extending downward. My friend thought that perhaps the rubber hose might have had a plug in it and it fell out. Maybe this is some blow-by hose. As we look closer we saw there was this spring just sitting there near the throw out bearing. When pulled the clutch in and saw that it didn't seem to have any purpose. We think it may have been inside a hole that it now is crossing perpendicular wise. It may have add some outward pressure on the the throw out bearing arm. Here are links that are picture of the area.

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure005.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure006.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure007.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure009.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure010.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure011.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure013.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure014.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure015.jpg

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure016.jpg

If you move your mouse over the picture I have put in some descriptions.

Is there a plug missing? Should I replace it before riding it again?
Should I push that spring back in the hole? Can I do it just messing with it or do I have to disconnect the clutch cable first? Well, how would I do it?

Thanks for any help,
John

 

[WayneOrwig]

Someone changed the oil.

They over filled it. :blink:

On that bike. Keep the oil level near the lower level. If you keep it near the middle or top, it will start blowing it out the crankcase vent system. It will collect in the air box. The airbox drain is on the left side and drains behind the tranny. When you lean it over on the sidestand, it runs out.

The spring goes in a pocket in the tranny right about where that picture shows, and pushes on the clutch lever. The casting on the lever has a little post that it sitts on. Likely, someone unhooked the cable and it fell out, then it wasn't replaced when the cable was hooked back it.

 

[fisherguzzi]

I added some oil a few weeks ago and with the bike on the center stand, the engine cold, screwing the dipstick all the way in and then checking it was around a 3/4 mark. Generally I keep it on the side stand. I have seen the oil level at that high before. Perhaps the oil blew out on the road in the past.

So the arm is a clutch arm and not a throw out bearing. Like I said I am not technical. I guess the spring has been that way a very long time. It was last serviced in August. It was a general 6k service and the wheel bearings were both replaced. Also, clutch lever bushing replaced, fix leak at sealed timing sensor according the paperwork. Does that sound like the area where the spring could have gotten messed up?

So, it sounds like the bike has no real problems and I can ride it.

Thanks !

 

[RJVB]

I don't know about the EV, but on the newer engines, oil should be checked with the plug resting on the thread, not screwed all the way back in.

 

[WayneOrwig]

fisherguzzi wrote:

I added some oil a few weeks ago and with the bike on the center stand, the engine cold, screwing the dipstick all the way in and then checking it was around a 3/4 mark. Generally I keep it on the side stand. I have seen the oil level at that high before. Perhaps the oil blew out on the road in the past.

So the arm is a clutch arm and not a throw out bearing. Like I said I am not technical. I guess the spring has been that way a very long time. It was last serviced in August. It was a general 6k service and the wheel bearings were both replaced. Also, clutch lever bushing replaced, fix leak at sealed timing sensor according the paperwork. Does that sound like the area where the spring could have gotten messed up?

So, it sounds like the bike has no real problems and I can ride it.

Thanks !

Try to keep it below 1/2 with the dipstick screwed in, on the centerstand, on that bike. If you find it is 'using' any oil, odds are it is actually just blowing it out the breather. If you put it above 1/2, and go for a long fast ride, it will try to 'auto adjust' :laugh: the level back down by blowing it out.

When they unhooked the cable to work on the lever, that is when the spring fell out, most likely. Easy enough to put back with the cable disconnected.

 

[fisherguzzi]

Re:02 EV mystery leak - Gear OIL change incorrectl

The mystery leak was resolved by not overfilling, meaning more than half way up the dipstick mark (between min and max). Thanks !!!!

I fixed the clutch lever spring and changed the gear oil.
Here is that picture. See the bolt. I thought that was the gear oil drain plug. It shot out gear oil.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll22 ... ure011.jpg

But in looking at the big daddy picks

http://www.motoguzzishop.com/Big_Daddy/ ... ERVICE.htm

I see big daddy is unscrewing using rachet/socket up from the floor and not parallel like I did.

I rechecked and see there is a bolt straight up and closer to the front of the bike and not as easy to see. So, I got it wrong, right?
What did I drain?
I have put a few hundred miles on the EV. What did I screw up?

:unsure:

 

[john zibell]

Re:02 EV mystery leak - Gear OIL change incorrectl

You still drained the gearbox. The folks at Guzzi were kind and added a second drain plug at the back. It alleviates the need to remove the exhaust to drain the gearbox. As you noticed, the bike comes stock with a "pre-muffler" that takes up all the space under the gearbox.

 

[Muley]

John,

According to what I read, the '99 models on had a transmission drain plug relocated just where your picture shows it. On my '98 EV, the plug was under the tranny which required removal of the crossover to get to it. Mine is located where Big Daddy on your post was accessing it. If I am wrong about this then someone jump in there. John Zibell verified this just as I posted.

Your EV has three places for lube, and they all require separate oils.

Motor oil : 3 litres of 20w-50 with drain plug located on bottom rear of oil sump(facing rear of the bike).

Transmission: 750 cc of 80w-90 gear oil with drain plug accessed where your picture shows it

Final Drive: 250cc of Moto Guzzi Final Drive Lube or 230cc of 80w-90 gear oil (exactly like the tranny) AND 20 cc of Moly additive (available from most Guzzi dealers and elsewhere)

note: use a rag on the wheel rim when draining the final drive or you'll have a mess.

FWIW, I use only synthetic Amsoil products in everything, but you can use any kind of good, high quality lube. I think it's more important to change fluids often and regularly than what brand you use, but we don't need another oil thread

 

[fisherguzzi]

Those funny Italians! I have two plugs to drain the gear oil. Wow!

I certainly feel better. Thank you.

Muley,
You wrote something I hadn't heard before.

Final Drive: 250cc of Moto Guzzi Final Drive Lube or 230cc of 80w-90 gear oil (exactly like the tranny) AND 20 cc of Moly additive (available from most Guzzi dealers and elsewhere)

I had used Amsol 80w-90, but did not put use Moly Additive. What is the purpose of that? Does everyone do that? No intent to start an oil thread, but I need to understand?

Thanks!

 

[john zibell]

Guys,

I stopped using Moly in the rear drive some years ago. I found it is good for the gears, but bad for the bearings. I've been using synthetic 80W-90 for may years without gear or bearing failures. BTW, the new CARC drives do not use moly additive.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

fisherguzzi wrote:

Those funny Italians! I have two plugs to drain the gear oil. Wow!

I certainly feel better. Thank you.

Muley,
You wrote something I hadn't heard before.

Final Drive: 250cc of Moto Guzzi Final Drive Lube or 230cc of 80w-90 gear oil (exactly like the tranny) AND 20 cc of Moly additive (available from most Guzzi dealers and elsewhere)

I had used Amsol 80w-90, but did not put use Moly Additive. What is the purpose of that? Does everyone do that? No intent to start an oil thread, but I need to understand?

Thanks!

Moly is an EP additive. If you're using Amsoil, you don't need it. Not to worry..

 

[Muley]

John said:

I stopped using Moly in the rear drive some years ago. I found it is good for the gears, but bad for the bearings

John, could you elaborate please ? Have you experienced problems using moly with several older bikes or just newer models? I remember reading somewhere that some Guzzis had plastic bearing carriers and that some lubes would degrade those, but what about others? I would love to just ditch the moly since it's a PIA to mix it, and it's messy, to say the least, but I thought it was necessary in the final drive of most older Guzzis. Can I use straight synthetic 80w-90 in the rear end without worrying:huh:

 

[john zibell]

Muley,

I found the moly may cause sever pitting on the carrier in the rear drive. That is the piece the ring gear bolts to and that rides in the needle bearing in the rear drive. Ate the bearing up in short order (only about 25K on the 98 EV). Moly is a sulfide compound. If the chemical bond breaks down (heat ) the sulfide may re-combine and form an acid.

Moly is used to absorb the shearing from gears and to cushion them, but may cause problems for bearings. The new synthetic oils seem to work well in preventing this pitting, and are also resistant to shearing from the gears.

Personally, I just don't see the need for moly with the advent of synthetic gear oils.