'10 Air box differences

[GTM®]

For those curious... special thanks to Peter N for sending along the pics below. I will try to get my hands on the parts PDF to post as well. If you have it, please send it along to me to; Todd at GuzziTech.com

Peter added my GT-Rx ECU and PC-V/AT. He has posted on it elsewhere, and perhaps if he sees this, he will again.

 

[GuzzE]

I received the CNC air box ring last week and will try if it fits a '10 model.. I'll post some pics once I get it installed together with the PCV and AT.

 

[pnguzzi]

Peter added my GT-Rx ECU and PC-V/AT. He has posted on it elsewhere, and perhaps if he sees this, he will again.

Give your ride a treat, give it Todd's Fueling potion, the ECU upgrade etc. The bike is a completely different bike to ride. I can "blib" the throttle, no back firing, even powerband, no "HerkyJerkies", smooth running at low rpm traffic cruising and best of all tons of torque/loads of power.
She feels alot happier, kinda wish I had done this right off the showroom floor. The installation is a snap, the hardest part is routing the wires, the 10 model has made it difficult to route the wires as Todd shows on the earlier model.

Cheers

 

[Big E]

This was what I did. I know I should have marked out the holes so that they were all in line but I wasn't too concerened about the aesthetics as it's hidden under the seat. I've ordered a replacement cover incase of warranty issues about £7.00 in UK

I have obviously removed the snorkel and fitted a K&N, much better mid-range now expecially with the CAT gone too.

Ian

 

[fatal]

Ian, would not this modification cause the bike to run a lot leaner, or have you altered the fuelling to compensate for any extra leaness in the mixture. I only mention this as in other threads of this nature I think it was mentioned that these engines run quite lean as standard.

 

[Big E]

Hya mate

If it's running lean the Lamnda sensor will richen it up, thats what its there for, I believe. I did the same on my 1200 Sport and after 16000 miles it was still a happy little bunny,don't forget these engines are strangled to death to keep the Belgian knobhead beurocrats happy in their sad perfect do goody insular world. Big V's need to breath not be strangled by a snorkel that is a left over from an early apprilia and is only fitted because it quietens the induction noise.

If you want, come over and have a go on mine and see what you think though not this weekend I'm off to York to support the breweries.(my excuse_

Cheers Ian

 

[londonrob]

When I opened up the airbox on the Breva it really improved it, think I'll be doing the same on the Stelvio, If ever the new cams and followers turn up :whistle:

 

[Tassie Mike]

Hya mate

If it's running lean the Lamnda sensor will richen it up, thats what its there for, I believe.

E, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is nigh impossible to make these things too lean because the electrickery bits will compensate?

 

[Big E]

Hya mate

If it's running lean the Lamnda sensor will richen it up, thats what its there for, I believe.

E, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is nigh impossible to make these things too lean because the electrickery bits will compensate?

Hi Mike

I believe that the removal of the snorkel and the opening up of the airbox will be easily compensated for by the Lambda sensor. I've done this on all of my injected bikes for years and have never had any issues though I have never actually checked the exhaust gases. The plugs are always the correct colour and I've used the bikes for some long distance high speed runs with no detriment. If you think about it, it isn't as if you are pushing air into the bike, you are just letting it breath.

It's a pity that modern bikes have to be strangled by emmisions regs because they would be so much better without all of the electronic junk and strangling air/exhaust systems.

You have to make your own decisions on this one but I will keep mine desnorkelled and opened up for as long as I own it, the transformation is well worth it.

Cheers Ian

 

[Tassie Mike]

Thanks, Ian.

I removed the snorkel (although didn't swiss cheese the airbox lid) and the bike was worse, especially in the 2000-4500 range where I spend most of my time.

So, back to square one.

 

[Bisonheed]

Perhaps the cat' removal and the airbox mods are required ? I've got an agftermarket pipe and will be trying the snorkel removal once the snow has gone...

 

[DanPez]

If you modify these conditions (modification/suppression of the Air box, replacement of the filters, cylinder head modification) well you are on your own: the volume of effectively admitted air no longer corresponds to the origin ECU data, and the injection system has no means of holding counts, in contrast to systems where the volume actually is measured.

As for a modification of the of air system (filters open or other) the Lambda probe effectively try to compensate in it's AFR pre-programmed ECU range (lean) cause of emissions, but this is not where the problems usually occurs ... its rather on the strong accelerations, where lambda probe does nothing.

A first step consists in to be able to increase fuel trim, which can be done by way of software (VDST or similar). Next, to have better, it would be necessary to reprogram the ECU to take into account the mods.

My 2 cents ...... B)

 

[Big E]

If you modify these conditions (modification/suppression of the Air box, replacement of the filters, cylinder head modification) well you are on your own: the volume of effectively admitted air no longer corresponds to the origin ECU data, and the injection system has no means of holding counts, in contrast to systems where the volume actually is measured.

My 2 cents ...... B)

Guess I'm "on my own" then.What you are saying in effect is if I'm 5,000 feet up a mountain I will could wreck the engine because there's insufficient air or if I run it at sea level on a cold day when the air is dense I also may wreck the engine because there's too much air, surely modern ECU's can cope with and adjust for a wide range of variables so long as they can get the air in in the first place and likewise get rid of it. My Stelvio runs absolutely superbly with the mods I've done, as did my 1200 Sport and the Sport did almost 20,000 miles with absolutely no problems whatsoever. If I had to tolerate the Stelvio in standard trim it would have to be sold because it's flat as a fart mid-range when you leave it strangled.

All I can say is that there are numerous Guzzi owners who have done exactly the same mods on Norge's, Sports, Brevas etc etc with no problems, if you are worried about modding it in this way then leave it alone.

Good luck
Ian

 

[GTM®]

I removed the snorkel (although didn't swiss cheese the airbox lid) and the bike was worse, especially in the 2000-4500 range where I spend most of my time. So, back to square one.

Most of the U.S. bikes, as delivered, do *not* respond well to intake modifications like the air box lid without resolved fueling. I am quite surprised to hear even of a few that do.

 

[Big E]

I removed the snorkel (although didn't swiss cheese the airbox lid) and the bike was worse, especially in the 2000-4500 range where I spend most of my time. So, back to square one.

Most of the U.S. bikes, as delivered, do *not* respond well to intake modifications like the air box lid without resolved fueling. I am quite surprised to hear even of a few that do.

Maybe (only a theory) it's down to the quality of petrol that we use. Uk petrol goes as high as 98 Octane and standard is usually around 95 Octane whereas I believe in the USA you use gas around RON 91/92 and Canada has some that is as low as RON 87, that could make quite a significant difference. I know if we use some of the cheaper fuels over here the bikes and cars don't seem to like it.

Ian

 

[GTM®]

Ian, without a doubt, fuel is a major point of contention with me regarding world fuel mapping. However, cleaner burn Euro fuel would create an even leaner condition. You said you live at altitude, yes? There is the possibility of creating an excessively lean burn condition at sea-level with the airbox mod with stock mapping yes, because the stock narrow band sensor and ECU are not designed/programmed to give corrections where you are asking it to get to with the airbox lid mod. That's keeping it in simple terms.

 

[Big E]

Todd thanks once again. I must bow to your far superior knowledge of all things fuel injected.I don't live at altitude in fact not much above sea level. The bike never seems to run weak, no signs of pre-ignition and appears to run really well.

I think I'm getting to the stage where I'm going to rid myself of the bike soon and buy something Japanese or even a Triumph , something that runs well without buggering about.

Cheers Ian

 

[londonrob]

Of the 3 Guzzis I own if I was going to offload one it would be the Stelvio, the 1000S and B11 have been no problem at all.
You would have thought that after having the new 8 valve engine in production for several years they would have got things right by now, without the need for buggering about with them to get them to run well.
Or, in the case of my bike to get the engine to do more that 5000 miles without the cam followers failing, after swearing blind they had sorted the problems on earlier bikes.