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'13-15 V7 Over-charging? PLEASE READ

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Per the post below that started this thread, I STRONGLY advise that you check the charging system of your '13-15 V7 (ALL models) with a digital voltmeter at the battery (best) or Diagnostic software to see where the bike is charging both at idle, and ~3000RPM or so. Acceptable range is 13.4~13.8v at idle, and up to 14.4v MAX at RPM. Most I've seen hover ~15.X volts at idle and soar up into the 16-17's @3k RPM - Do not rely on your dealer to correct it if so under warranty.

    What this does, is spike the electrical system with those voltages that the system was never designed to withstand. It is impressive that some of the bikes last as long as they do without a major meltdown. If you don't resolve this issue, first thing it does is kill the battery. If you've replaced your battery in a short time since new, or more then once, this is likely the problem. Second item that goes is the cam sensor. This usually appears by strange running at RPM, until the bike literally dies without warning and *will not restart* until replaced. On some bikes I've replaced the battery, voltage regulator (this is the culprit - don't replace with a stock version from these years), cam sensor, and most recently one bike took replacement of the entire ECU/Throttle Body to resolve poor running.

    I have documented this on nearly every V7 I've gotten near since 2013 here in Los Angeles, including my own from my RentAGuzzi Fleet.

    If your bike is still under warranty, and you verify this charging issue to be true on your V7, be sure to have your dealer replace the voltage regulator and battery, then ask them to show/prove to you that there are no cam sensor errors (P0336 - SEE THIS THREAD) on the ECU (or any others for that matter) - 0611 is an ECU error, and commonly lives always on the V7. Do this when you first take it in and wait/watch as it is easy to clear the codes once connected. It is good to check this yourself with a Diagnostic tool such as Alaris or similar.
    If there are error codes, demand they replace all items shown as an error, or you will be out of pocket for all of them sooner or later.

     
    Wisconsin v7 Racer likes this.
  2. pokeyjoe

    pokeyjoe High Miler

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    He probably used a voltmeter. Yes, 15.1 volts is too high and can cause damage. I don't know if Todd ever got everything sorted out with a bike he's been working on that had similar issues.

    What did your mechanic do about it? The regulator/rectifier needs to be replaced. You should really not have more than 14.4 volts. A 12v battery is made up of 6 cells at 2.4 volts each (14.4 volts). If left at 15.1 volts, you risk damaging the battery and maybe some sensors and even the ECU.
     
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  3. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The mechanic told me that the regulator may need to be changed. He also told me that its strange that the battery us still in working order...i m calling him again tomorrow
     
  4. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    I did, see above. It took replacement of the voltage regulator, cam sensor, battery and ECU/Throttle Body... All out of pocket for the owner.
     
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  5. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Thanks for the reply. So what do i have to do? Or change?
     
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  6. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Welcome, if you are under warranty, demand they replace the voltage regulator with the V7 II version, a new battery and ask them to see if the cam sensor has an error on the ECU. If it does, that should be replaced as well.
     
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  7. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The warranty expired on the 8 of january 2016, the battery look ok. So if i change the regulator should i be ok?
     
  8. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    As I wrote already above "which ultimately kills the battery (don't be fooled into thinking it's not, as it will strand you)." It will cause running issues either way until it strands you. Battery life is about 2-3 years on newer batteries.
     
    dabrucru likes this.
  9. BenRCMC

    BenRCMC Tuned and Synch'ed

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    This is very interesting. My battery died a few months after I got it but the bike was already around two years old. I replaced it.

    My friend's V7, same year as mine has always had a problem with maintaining a charge - even if he leaves it for three+ days or so the battery completely loses all its charge, even after he's replaced it.

    Which is weird, seeing as my brother's Racer, same year, has had the same battery its whole life and has little to no issues at all, even when he leaves it sitting for months...
     
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  10. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    so in your opinion should i change the regulator? because the battery is still good. i have not had any running issues so far.
     
  11. rbm

    rbm Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    If you're thinking of changing the regulator, search Google for "MOSFET type voltage regulator for V7". Also check out the FH020AA regulator/rectifier at roadstercycle.com . Better than OEM.
     
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  12. pokeyjoe

    pokeyjoe High Miler

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    I had to put that regulator on the two Triumphs I owned. I thought they were done with Lucas, but the theory of smoke lives on.
     
  13. francod123

    francod123 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Todd, will diagnostics tell us if were running too high, etc., or is a voltmeter the only way to tell? Sounds like you think it's a problem across the board with nearly all V7s. Thanks.

    PS Which regulator do you recommend in your store to purchase for 13' V7? (I'm assuming having an antigravity lith battery is still perfectly fine with one of these despite your disclaimer you have to write up in the details section) Thanks Todd.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
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  14. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    tomorrow i m going to check my bike on a diagnostic...will post the results...thanks all
     
  15. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Interesting, I'll have to check this out once I get my bike ready for spring, but that's gonna be about 6-8 weeks away.
     
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  16. 99sh

    99sh Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Happened to me at ~400 miles which was discovered by a quickly draining battery - https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/how-long-does-your-battery-hold-charge.11139/#post-83327

    I ended up purchasing a new VR out of pocket, vs replacing it with the same OEM junk. Search for "SHINDENGEN regulator" on ebay. For about $120 you can buy a kit which includes everything you need and install it yourself. If you research this, you'll see most Japanese manufacturers equip this VR as OEM. My track bike also had a VR issue and also got a Shindengen regulator.


    Made a simple AL mounting place, rewired and popped it on. The voltage is now within spec. Battery still working 2 years later...

    IMAG1413.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
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  17. dabrucru

    dabrucru Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Hi all just a quick update. Today i took it to the official guzzi dealer. He put it on the diagnostic and found no fault. But he thinks that the battery is a bit used up. Maybe it needs to be changed.
     
  18. Wisconsin v7 Racer

    Wisconsin v7 Racer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Did he say what the voltage was reading while hooked up to the diagnosis? Mine shows all that in live time when hooked up. As todd stated above it will kill the battery over time.
     
  19. rbm

    rbm Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The AGM battery that comes with the bike should be good for 5 - 7 years, much longer than flooded lead acid batteries of old. Your VR is probably killing the battery by overcharging it. Did the dealer plug the bike into a diagnostic machine and read the ECU's idea of system voltage, or did they actually use a voltmeter to measure the supplied voltage across the battery terminals?

    For comparison, I bought my V7R used from an insurance agency. The bike had been in a house fire and had subsequently sat outside in the agency's storage yard through a long cold Canadian winter totally uncared for. It had the original Yuasa battery in it all through this. I continue to use that same battery 3 years later and it is in top condition. That demonstrates the environmental abuse these batteries can endure even if not properly tended all the time. However, overcharging cooks the inside and kills it quickly.

    Replace the VR as a matter of course (unless you want to confirm the diagnosis by measuring the voltage across the battery terminals at 2500 RPM or higher). Do this before or at the same time that you replace the battery because, if you just replace the battery while holding onto a defective VR, you are risking killing another one and causing more expense for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  20. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    If all the dealer did was read the diagnostic codes I doubt he would have seen anything. If it is over-charging it will not throw a code. You need to measure the voltage to know whether or not it is over charging. The dash display, if it shows voltage, tends to read low.
     

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