Ridemalibu Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
  1. Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. In SoCal? See the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have are already answered on the Forum with FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. PLEASE DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back if you are posting elsewhere on the web. Note there's decades of Guzzi hands-on experienced help on this site, all whom give endless amounts of their time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL! There is zero tolerance on personal attacks and off-site links to other Forums or competing products. Also be sure to click on the Store link also above for our 600+ product inventory, including many of our 100% Made-in-house-USA GTM products and engine kits. We appreciate the consideration, understanding and your business... past and future. Also be sure to see our GTMotoCycles.com custom BUILDS tab above. WE ARE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED.

2013 V7 Racer Intake and Exhaust Mods

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by rgoff, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. rgoff

    rgoff Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aurora
    I am a longtime Guzzi enthusiast but this is my first time to post on this forum. I wanted to share some mods I have made to my new V7 Racer and the results thus far. Looking for any feedback from those that may have done similar mods and what they experienced.

    I installed a set of Mistral mufflers and removed the stock air box. In it's place, I installed a K£N air filter pod. As expected when I fired it up the first time, It would not idle but actually ran pretty good by keeping on the throttle. No popping to speak of on decel and a lot more get up for sure. I plan to install a PCV and have it dialed in on a dyno.

    Meanwhile, I was curious to see what would happen if I unplugged the O2 sensors. I really wasn't expecting anything good to come from it but I can't help but tinker with things that are probably better left alone when I find myself with a bit of idle time on my hands.

    To my amazement, the bike settled into a very nice idle, a bit on the high side but not bad at all. No warning light came either, as I fully expected to happen. Ok, I am going to run down the road 2 or 3 miles to see what gives. To my amazement, It actually ran quite nicely with no flat spots, no popping on decel, great acceleration from stop to 5k RPM in all gears, returning to a nice idle when done. Absolutely unexpected on all accounts. Again, I have not done the PCV or Dyno yet.

    Back home, looking at it and wondering what the devil is going on, I decided to take it out again for about 6-7 miles. Still unsure what is going on so taking baby steps. It again ran practically flawless and still no warning light. I don't get it but am pleased to say the least. I still plan to have a PCV installed and put it on the dyno to dial it in as there can't be any way that it is properly fueling in my mind, but it sure runs and sounds good like it is nevertheless.

    Any thoughts or cautions/warnings would be greatly appreciated, especially regarding the O2 sensor disconnect.

    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  2. sign216

    sign216 High Miler

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Eastern, Massachusetts
    Ron,

    I guess the exhaust and airbox mods would make it leaner. Normally the O2 sensor would auto correct it to a rich mix, which is better. But since it's running better without the Lambda sensor, than I'm not sure what's going.

    Eager to hear other theories.

    Joe
     
  3. rgoff

    rgoff Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aurora
    Thanks Joe. I went for another ride today, a little longer for a total of about 50 miles since making these mods. Runs like top. Accelerates smoothly in high gear from slightly below 2k rpm, with no hiccup or hesitation. Sweet on the high end as well up to 5k and it wants to keep going. Still breaking it in so keeping a lid on the revs for now. No popping on decel as stated before, no engine warning light as yet, and a steady idle with no surging. If i didn't know better, I would guess that it had a PCV installed and had already been dialed in on a dyno, neither of which are the case.

    After the first 300 miles from new and before any mods, I removed the plugs to see what they looked like (forever curious about stuff and tinkering). They looked like they were new and never been used. Indicative of the super lean state from the factory I suppose. I removed them today after 50 miles of riding post mods, and they were the perfect shade of light brown/beige that all riders like to see, indicating some proper fueling going on. I will keep an ye on this after more miles.

    Final note, charcoal canister gone, removal of the air box necessitates the need to fab a battery holder (I used aluminum plate stock), high temp plug wire sleeves and plug wire rerouting to prevent plug wire meltdown from cylinder heat, Full Spectrum P2 lithium battery for small footprint and lightness (1.7 lbs vs 7-8 lbs), and a minor mod to make the molded-in tray on the rear fender under the seat a secure holding storage place for owners manual, legal docs, and tool kit.

    Best Regards,
    Ron
     
  4. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Sun City West, AZ
    From your experience the argument can be made that the O2 sensors are there to ensure low-emission regulations are met rather than to properly fuel the engine. Politicians, Lawyers, and Accountants always prevail over good engineering.

    If your engine runs better without the O2 sensors in the circuit, and plug checks indicate proper heat range, and the EFI light stays off, then I'd say you're good to go!
     
  5. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    SW Florida
    I like what you have done, thx for posting.

    Weight reduction is a key element in handling and performance of any vehicle, so, with all due respect to Mr Roper..... I'd say you moved the ball forward . Good on you mate! :D

    Regards, Paul
     
  6. cytocycle

    cytocycle Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Scottsdale
    I already tried to install a PC-V and there is no TPS wire on the Single TB, so it can't be done. You are running your bike crazy lean which is running it crazy hot. I wouldn't recommend this for break in miles. I added Guzzitech dual 02 Optimizers to fix the bottom end leanness and it has added a little bottom end for me. Plus my ankles and legs aren't roasting like they were before because of how damn lean it is from the factory.

    Keep us posted
     
  7. Charlie J

    Charlie J Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Taree, Australia
    Gday Ron. How many miles on your bike,before and after mods ? What is the colour of your header pipes and has it changed since mods ? What sort of ambient temperatures are you experiencing? Has the temp of the engine changed? Good on ya for trying these things ! Certainly unexpected results.
     
  8. rgoff

    rgoff Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aurora
    Sorry to be so late to reply. I never thought anyone would respond to my post.

    A couple of hundred miles since the mods and it still runs excellent. The plugs are still the right color. Still no popping on decel. I polished the initial bluing out of the headers just before the mods. They have not turned blue again. In fact, the right header doesn't turn at all, and the left has a narrow, 4 " long band of slight harvest gold color on top cloest the port. and that's it so far. Still No engine light.

    I ride it little every day, mainly because it is a fun bike, but to also keep monitoring plugs and overall performance. it sure runs better post mods to Pete's comment.

    And yes, the incremental increase in pollution I must be emitting into the atmosphere when riding this beast must be horribly high from this gas belching 750cc monster engine. I am sure I have personally raised the temp here in Texas at least a degree or two from my modification antics. I do feel bad about this Pete.

    Take care all, and happy motoring.

    Ron
     
  9. rgoff

    rgoff Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aurora

    Hello Charlie,
    Sorry for not responding sooner. I am new to this forum and have not been checking it lately. I did a post just moments ago on the forum with an update, but wanted to reply to you directly as well.

    Our temps here in Texas having been the usual 100+ degree days for summer, and I do ride the v7 when it is hot out. It doesn't seem to be running any hotter and the plugs are burning super nice. I still don't know what to make of it ( the mods and results) as I was expecting an outcome not so great so far as lean/ hot running. I also ride a KTM 990 Adventure that is modified in the same manner and it likewise runs like top with no PC or dyno time yet.

    Best Regards,
    Ron
     
  10. 370_racer

    370_racer Tuned and Synch'ed

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Chicago
    This all sounds relatively normal to me except for couple of things. I would guess these engines are tuned using Alpha-n given no sensors to meter air intake. This would imply that ECU was tuned to run ok even without O2 sensors. Generally O2s are there so they can provide feedback and ECU compensates fuel. Normally engine runs in closed loop, meaning O2 sensors are working. In general, at wide open throttle(WOT) systems go to open loop bypassing O2s. Also, base maps are generally on the rich side in case O2s fail - that way engines will operate safely, albeit burn more fuel.

    Now, with you disconnecting O2s it mimics them failing and also if you introduced more air to the engine from what it expects, you end up with good running engine. To really confirm this, I would recommend connecting wide-band sensor and monitor to one or both pipes to confirm this. Yes you can read the plugs too but that can be deceiving, and is not all that accurate.

    So the only exception, or confusion on my part here is that in order to tune the engine this way the ECU relies on throttle position sensor(TPS). However, I believe form some reading around and looking at the service manual I have, there is not TPS here, unless it somehow incorporated on the ECU board as ECU is attached to the throttle body. There must be something otherwise bike may as well run on carbs.

    Anyone have more knowledge on 1TB engines?
     
  11. Barenekd

    Barenekd Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Brea
    If I did all that stuff off my bike, I'd take it up to 8000 feet and see how it runs up there. But then I have 8000' roads out my back door so it's easy. Mine runs pretty good up there as is.
    I don't know where Aurora TX is but its a pretty good bet you don't have any 8000' roads handy. But if it's running as good as you say, go for it! Your mileage should show some difference if you've been keeping track of that.
    Bare
     
  12. lucky phil

    lucky phil Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria
    I cant quite understand, maybe someone will explain it to me.
    Guzzi produce a gaudy, anemic little motorcycle for aging wannabees trying to relive a past they didnt actually have.
    Then the same people want to muck about with sporty mufflers, intake mods, power commanders rearsets, etc etc.
    Look, I totally respect those that want a V7, ahem "racer" but if you want a mans bike then just go and buy one in the first place and avoid all the trouble.
    A Griso would be a good place to start.
    Ciao
     
    Jenko and JCB like this.
  13. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,863
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    B'more, Md
    Well, I can't explain the V7 Racer thing as I don't get it. It's not the mechanical aspects I don't get, its the look. Putting number plates on a street bike is stupid. Putting number plates on a slow street bike is even dumber. But there are some really nice aesthetic touches other than those stupid number plates.
    The part about pipes and other mods to make any slow bike faster I totally get. What I don't get is when people who don't get it ask "Why don't you just buy a faster bike to begin with?". Dumber words are rarely said.
    People mod their motorcycles because they WANT to. It is part of making your motorcycle YOURS. Every motorcycle I have ever owned has been modded to some extent. Some were simple mods like a pipe. Others I have completely rebuilt. One is a dirt bike I am re-building as a road racer. Could I have bought a motorcycle that was already close to being a road racer, like a modern 600cc sport bike? Sure. But that is boring and does not interest me at all.
    There is something rewarding about taking a slow or under performing motorcycle and making it faster. It is hard to do that to a motorcycle that is already about as good as it gets. A motorcycle like a Guzzi is much easier and cheaper to improve over stock. Even a Griso can be much better than it comes from the factory.
    As to your "man's bike" comment....sounds like you need to compensate for some shortcomings. Not everybody has those shortcomings. :lol:
     
  14. rgoff

    rgoff Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aurora
    Hello all,
    Since my last post, I have removed the front and rear number plates. A much cleaner look IMO. I have also gone with alloy fenders front and rear, and a chrome headlight bucket.

    I always tell myself when I acquire a new ride that I will leave it stock this go around, and not mess with it. That usually lasts for about one week, at most. It is a look that I am usually after first, more so than performance gains. That's just the way I roll. Makes no sense to some no doubt, but tinkering is in my DNA, I suppose. It is always a money loser for me as well, but I am not an enthusiast for monetary gain. I am in fact stretched monetarily most of the time because of my crazy passion for these two wheeled beasts. I really need to ride more and tinker less. It would also be great if I could just be satisfied with one bike. I've tried and failed more times than I care to think about. I am 62 and have been riding and tinkering since I was 12, non stop. Too late for therapy :roll:

    Bikes;
    1) KTM 990 Adventure ( went from "what was I thinking when I bought this complicated machine" to one of my most favorite rides ever, and "highly tinkered with", of course)
    2) Stelvio NTX (agostini muffler, Mr. Eagan's air filter frame, and lots of Stucchi stuff)
    3) V7 Racer (yes, messed with greatly as posted, but loving it)
    4) Triumph T100 Bonneville (reto'd out, vintage black/grey seat, alloy fenders, vintage tail light, Toga mufflers, and much more)
    5) Honda CB1100 ( the new one, Staintune muffler, really nice in stock form otherwise. This will be the one, finally, that I tinker with the least!)

    Take care all, and ride safe!

    Ron
     
  15. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    3,245
    Location:
    Malibu
    Not quite yet, but I'll be doing some extensive testing soon, including monitoring Air/Fuel data.
    On the pre-'12 1.5M ECU, an unplugged 02-sensor/lambda would throw a fault, and put the bike into a "limp home mode" which is horrific for those who have experienced it.
    The '13 single T/B MIU ECU does not show a fault when the 02's are unplugged, and the ECU data does not show me anything it does when they are. I will post my findings in a few weeks.

    p.s. Moved this topic here to the V7 section.
     
  16. lucky phil

    lucky phil Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria
    Good points, and I understand the Mod aspects as I'm a hopelessly devoted to mods. I like to think the mods I do though are to refine whats already there or add elegance to a design that had been compromised in the first place by things like regulations.
    I was just prodding the "racer" crowd in my previous post.
    Although I am always amazed that people will ride something that shouts "look at me Ive got nothing".
    They are a bit like those kit cars that try to look like something exotic, but are fitted with a VW engine. Very sad.
    But I guess thats the world we live in..."perception is the new reality"
    Ciao
     
  17. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Medford, NJ
    OK, this is what I have gleaned/guessed from the factory manual (and poking around my bike and from some dealer tech reports on WG). But some of it is supposition because of limited info in the manuals.

    The injection system schematic (not a wiring harness diagram, but separate graphical listing of injection components) makes it sound like a basic closed-loop, speed/density system that bases most mapping decisions on Intake Air Temp and Throttle Position). As such it does not appear to be really that unlike any of the previous Guzzi systems from a fuel strategy standpoint (at least not since they introduced 02 sensors for feedback).

    However, there are one or two major differences regarding those basic components.

    The entire system appears to be self-contained in the combination throttle body/ECM assembly. The system schematic lists both a throttle valve position sensor and air temperature sensor. HOWEVER, the wiring diagrams only picture the dash air temp sensor and the injection system schematic also shows the dash in the same position. SO it's unclear if the DASH temp sensor signal is being used for fuel mapping (which would be odd) or if there is a separate, non-serviceable air temp sensor incorporated into the throttle body.

    Also, the 1TB V7 (like the new Cali 1400) is a "ride-by-wire" throttle. Not unlike some other early DBW/RBW efforts it still contains throttle cables, but they run to the side of the throttle body where all they do is physically actuate the TPS and NOT the throttle valve. So as such I believe they simply act as a potentiometer not for ACTUAL throttle position, but for desired throttle position.

    That would mean the actual throttle is servo controlled by the ECM (which is why there is no need for a fast idle lever, the ECM has direct control over the throttle and can set idle speed, including raising it for cold engine operation simply by holding it open a little more).

    So although fuel mapping decisions are being made based on throttle position, I assume it is NOT the position of the TPS per se (which just tells the ECM where the rider wants the throttle) as much as based on where the ECM actually decides to place the throttle in relation to the TPS (known only on the internal circuitry of the ECM). This may generally be a one-to-one relationship, except say when the throttle is closed but the ECM is holding it open for cold operation.

    We're told that this system better self-adjusts to things like minor changes in pipes (Mistral, Lafranconnis etc.) so I'm not sure how great a role the 02 sensors play, but it would seem they do provide both feedback and long term learning fuel trim functions.

    The PADS system can be used to reset the trim learning functions, and I believe to reset TPS parameters, though I've seen some confusing reports on when that should be done (initially I believe I was told only if the throttle body was replaced).

    That's all I've got so far.
     
  18. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Medford, NJ
    I'm sorry Phil as I see the point you're trying to make, but honestly it's JUST AS STUPID as most "objections" to what OTHER PEOPLE LIKE as normally comes from those who use terms like "real" and "genuine" which are just another way of saying "I'm better than you because of my choices".

    What is owning a Griso say? What is the "perception" of it? Do the owners of Grisos not equally take pride in their looks? If so how much less "nothing" do they have when people look at them?

    Is the V7 Racer "nothing" because of the name and number plates? Is it nothing because those things came along with only 50 crank hp? Because if we're talking about power the Griso is equally "nothing" judged against 1100 and 1200cc modern sportbikes.

    Or is it just that it's not CALLED a racer? No, instead it's named after a villain in an Italian novel. What reality is that?

    No, I'm sorry, I don't get it, sounds like more BS that shouldn't have made it past kindergarten.

    Me, I'd happily own a V7 Racer too - yeah, I think the chrome is gaudy, and the number plates would have to go, but otherwise if the bike is anything like my V7 Stone I bet it is a complete pleasure to own and ride, and THAT'S ALL THAT matters.
     
    dabrucru, DavidB and Big Kahuna like this.
  19. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Dear Mr tuned and synced.... Why do you care soooooo much about what others ride? :roll:
    Have you not yet learned that there is NO RIGHT answere except to ride the one that puts a smile on your face?

    Perhaps your a frustrated want-a-be V7 CR owner?

    Regards, Paul
     
    dabrucru and Big Kahuna like this.
  20. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    3,245
    Location:
    Malibu
    OK, guys… this is going downhill fast.
    People ride what they ride… different tastes, needs/desires, etc, etc.
    Opinions are opinions, and lets leave it at that.
    I'll be deleting the posts above not on topic with this thread today.
     
    cliffyg likes this.

Share This Page