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2017 V7 III Check Engine Light

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by AbnMike, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    My Racer III has been super solid with no CEL. My V7 III Stone and V9 are problematic, meaning the CEL is on/off often. I have been told it's the "02-sensor placement" related to condensation (error code is 02-sensor related), but that doesn't jive with what is being posted about above. I am working on this still to try and resolve.
     
  2. chadrandom

    chadrandom Just got it firing!

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    My V7 III Special's (~550 miles) check engine light went on today after a bunch of stop and go riding in Seattle (no rain). It also made the same whining sound after shut off that Darth described. Will try to get to MG dealership tomorrow for assistance and report back any findings .
     
  3. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler

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    after a week in the dry garage it was still on. I disconnected the battery for a while and problem solved. Knock on wood!
     
  4. chadrandom

    chadrandom Just got it firing!

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    MG dealer checked mine out and said it was a tripped O2 sensor. The service guy said this is a known thing with the V7 III but also that MG has not issued any fix or resolution, so essentially there is no MG approved or provided way to make it stop happening.

    Pretty disappointing news to hear, considering an accurate and functional check engine light can be critical to a motor vehicle's longevity.
     
  5. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I agree with the last part. Mine goes on and off, it was off yesterday, today it is on.

    I'm about to contact the dealer under the Lemon Law and see if it can be returned. maybe if enough people did that Piaggio would fix the problem.
     
  6. chadrandom

    chadrandom Just got it firing!

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    Agreed, sometimes that's the only way a manufacturer will get the message. Mine has gone on, then off, seemingly at random. I bought my V7 III special used. Not sure if the lemon law applies to used bikes; I'll have to look that up. I had planned to do a good deal of customization to this bike. I'd be kinda sad to let the project die, but a non-functional check engine light does seem like a potentially dangerous issue.
     
  7. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    "potentially dangerous issue" ... ??

    The check engine light in my Toyota MR2 would flicker on and off from the day I bought it, new, in 1985 to the day I sold it in 2004 with 150,000 miles on it. After some analysis and testing, I discovered it was the O2 sensor being on the edge depending upon air temperature and humidity, and ignored it. Never once had a problem with the engine, other than the silly light.

    If the light comes on, determine the cause. If the cause is a malfunction of a sensor on a non-critical engine component, ignore the light. There's nothing dangerous about that... An O2 sensor failure will not cause your engine to seize or blow up.
     
  8. chadrandom

    chadrandom Just got it firing!

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    I can understand that point of view, but I respectfully disagree. An O2 sensor failure won’t cause the engine any harm, but if I can’t trust my check engine light, then if there is a more serious issue the provided means of alerting me to it (the light) will not do so because the light will already be on due to the O2 sensor failure or I won’t trust it coming on because it cries wolf by coming on all the time, so why should I believe there’s a legitimate issue this time?

    My understanding is that the only way to determine the cause of the check engine light going off when no visible, audible, or sensory clues are present is to attach the bike to a computer with the appropriate software. Most drivers and riders don’t have that, and don’t view it as reasonable to need to buy one. Every car and motorcycle sold, save for customs, have a check engine light for the purpose of increasing safety by alerting the driver/rider to an urgent issue. If it malfunctions regularly, then it can’t be trusted, which is essentially like not having a check engine light at all. This results in reduced safety, because there is no longer any alert to the urgent issues that the light is meant for.

    Perhaps this is no biggy for folks who are experienced riders and/or have some shop experience. In my case, this is my first bike, and I’ve never had any experience learning about the mechanics of cars or bikes. I suppose I could learn, but then I’d be taking away time from the other things that I learn. Since every motor vehicle sold on the mass market has a check engine light for the purpose of increasing safety, and this brand new bike was sold under the pretext that it works, it seems reasonable to expect it to work, and to feel the vehicle is less safe, or more dangerous, when it’s not working.
     
  9. GerryP

    GerryP Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Same issue I had with my 2000 Saab. so far not and issue with my 2015 Stone.
     
  10. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Exactly!

    If the light is on for a non-serious issue, how do I tell if there is a potentially serious issue? The light is already on. It doesn't come on twice. Do we hook it up to a computer every day just to make sure? Every other day? One every third Wednesday?

    The light is essentially worthless if it is on for the 02 sensor.
     
    roadscum likes this.
  11. JACoH

    JACoH Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Simply put, lemons in West Virginia are any passenger vehicles that are sold new to a consumer in the state but are flawed and unable to be repaired after a reasonable number of attempts.

    If the vehicle can't be repaired within the terms of the warranty after a reasonable number of attempts, you may have a lemon. Additionally, your vehicle will generally need to have a defect that either:

    • Significantly reduces the market resale value of the car.
    • Makes it unsafe to drive and likely to cause a serious injury or even death.
    • Impairs the normal function of the car.
    "Reasonable repair attempts" are defined as:

    • 1 attempt for conditions that could result in death or serious bodily injury.
      AND
    • 3 attempts for all other conditions.
    It is the duty of the manufacturer, agent, or authorized dealer to replace the vehicle. It is also the right of the consumer to sue for repurchase if the vehicle is not replaced.

    Matters should be initially handled with the manufacturer, agent, or authorized dealer. However, attorneys who specialize in the West Virginia lemon law can assist with legal matters, and in West Virginia, you can file a lawsuit without having to arbitrate your claim.
     
  12. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Guys. You are misinterpreting the meaning of the check engine warning light. And I don't mean just on your motorcycle!

    These warning lights came about to limit the liability of the manufacturers with respect to emissions control systems in about the 1980s, nothing else: If the light came on, you are being told to bring the vehicle in to the dealer to have the emissions fault corrected, which usually meant that the manufacturer's mandated 50,000 mile emissions control system warranty would not be called into play.

    They had (have) nothing whatever to do with safety or with the possibility of actual damage to the engine. That's why they're yellow and not red warning lights. BTW: critical failures (a major one is oil pressure failure, another is when you run the engine over the rpm limit) cause the General Alarm Warning indicator (red, the one with the triangle on it) to light. Failures in the braking system are reported by the ABS warning light (usually warning that the ABS system has been fired up) and same for the traction control system. These are both just warnings, though, so the lights are yellow, not red.

    The "Check engine" light basically means "Something in the emissions control system is amiss. Have it checked." where the red general warning light means "STOP DOING THAT, YOUR ENGINE IS AT RISK!"

    I was driving cars and riding motorcycles long before anything like a "check engine" light existed, and a few years before even emissions control systems existed. Yeah, I'm that old... :D Any truly dangerous fault that could cause engine damage or other vehicle safety issues is easily determined without a computer, even on today's incredibly computer driven vehicle powerplants.

    The major reason, for me, to not have the check engine light come on is that it's bright and annoying. As I said before, "If the light comes on, determine the cause. If the cause is a malfunction of a sensor on a non-critical engine component, ignore the light. There's nothing dangerous about that..." The most common cause for the check engine light to come on in every vehicle I've owned is a fault in the O2 sensor... and that's just not a component that will ever cause engine damage or has any safety related association!!
     
  13. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler

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    G's right! Try disconnecting the negative cable from the battery for a while like I suggested above. So far it's worked for me for 2000 miles. no big deal.
     
  14. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    The bottom line is that something is not working correctly on a brand new motorcycle, and Moto-Guzzi/Piaggio doesn't have a fix for it other than let it shine.

    For a $8,000 + motorcycle with less than 1000 miles (initially less than 500 miles) there should be nothing wrong. If there is something wrong then the manufacturer should fix it. I shouldn't be told to simply live with it.

    It also significantly reduces the resale value of the bike - meaning I couldn't sell it if I want it. No one wants to buy something at its proper value with a "check engine" light on it.

    A poster above said to "determine the cause..." well technically since the light can only come on once, every time you start it up if the light is on then you would need to determine the cause - it could be the same recurring issue (O2 sensor) or it could be indicating some other fault, but we wouldn't know unless we hooked it up to a scanner every time the light came on.

    The bikes with the recurring check engine light are broken. There is something that is not working as designed. For the cost of the motorcycle that should not be the case, period.

    Vagrant, I've had mine in the shop 2 or 3 times now, with replacing the sensor completely and it keeps coming back. I shouldn't have to disconnect anything on a brand new motorcycle to "fix" it.

    And trust me, I know old bikes, this is the newest bike I've ever bought myself. I have a 1971 Suzuki TS250, a 1983 Husqvarna 250WR, a 1983 Honda CR480R, a 1985 CR125, a 1986 CR250 and a 1986 Honda TLR. I've had numerous Yamaha RD350s in the past and once even had a 2004 Ducati - even the Ducati didn't have check engine lights on it...
     
  15. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    It doesn't affect all Moto Guzzi V7s. For instance, mine has not yet shown this problem once in 3400 miles. Which demonstrates that the problem isn't necessarily a faulty design, which would be a Moto Guzzi/Piaggio problem.

    BTW: There are only a few minor things that will cause a Check Engine light to illuminate. An O2 sensor fault is the one that does it 99.9% of the time. If the indicator is on whenever you switch on the power, you can be pretty sure that it's the O2 sensor fault being indicated, statistics are working in your favor there. That's the practical reality of the situation. :)

    Many seem to want to complain, cast blame, and worry about money rather than fix the problem properly. It's probably something very simple, like a wire in the harness that has some corrosion in it, an insulation gap that allows some moisture in, or a slightly loose connection ... stuff like this can happen to anything, it just takes a little insight and ingenuity on the part of the person performing the service to recognize it, track it down, and correct it.

    So regardless of what you have had checked, or replaced, or whatever, the cause of the problem on your bike has not yet been properly determined and fixed. That's something to take issue with, but the issue is with the service that has been applied to fix the fault.
     
  16. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I would beg to differ. Mine's been in the shop 3 times now, with diagnostics run, staff on the phone with MG/Piaggio, Piaggo admitting there is a problem with some of the sensors - as addressed above - where the sensor is positioned being the problem to the point that they were/are redesigning the exhaust in newer models to correct the problem.

    Properly fixed? You're right, it hasn't because in the bikes that do have the problem it requires the 02 sensor location to be moved, which is costly. If only some bikes exhibit it, but not all, then the Cost Benefit Analysis to correct the problem for all bikes (i.e. a recall) isn't there. So squeaky wheels get the grease I suppose (I've contacted Piaggio on this Tuesday and within 20 minutes of receiving my email invoking "Lemon law" I had a call back, unfortunately I was in a meeting and going to call in a bit). My mechanic has replaced the 02 sensor and the fault came back, it was traced to the opposite bank, that was replaced, Piaggo themselves told my local dealer exactly what the issue is...but so far, no fix other than to simply live with it. As mentioned in the first post, mine was showing the problem within 450 miles of purchase.

    I'll update the forum once I make the call this morning.
     
  17. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Good luck! I hope they find a fix for you. And if it is a problem endemic to the design, apply it to the whole production run.

    Perhaps I'm just lucky—I've had exactly zero problems with the Check Engine light coming on, or the O2 sensors. That said, the O2 sensor triggering an indicator is still not a critical engine problem ... :)
     
  18. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    [QUOTE="Godfrey, post: 144231That said, the O2 sensor triggering an indicator is still not a critical engine problem ... :)[/QUOTE]

    That's the problem. There's no way to tell what is triggering the check engine light if it's always on. Maybe it's the 02 sensor.

    Maybe there's another problem that has manifested that is also triggering it, but since it's always on, would never be addressed. That's the issue to me.

    If the light was only for the 02 sensor that would be one thing (still needs to be fixed though), but it isn't. It could be for a number of things in the engine.
     
  19. Echon

    Echon Just got it firing!

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    Oh quite intimidating.
     
  20. AbnMike

    AbnMike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Intimidating?

    Huh?
     

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