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8V Failure info.

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Re:Got an 8V cam......

As you say, chances are it had gone through the hardening. It's (nigh) impossible to distinguish cause and effect from a single sample. What if failure occurs when "it" starts going through the hardening, for whatever reason? Working with cold hard facts is the way to go, but their collection is hypothesis-driven, ideally (and that's just science-talk for "educated guessing" and supposing, really).
You don't think uneven hardening or uneven thickness of the hardened layer could be what's been causing this, then?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Of the cam? Very doubtful. Things are usually hardened in racks or baskets, the whole component s hardened to the same degree.

One thing that is noticeable is that there is damage to the opening flank of the cam just above the rampings. Unfortunately it is impossible to say why this occurred or if it occured before or after the tappet failed but it does illustrate the point I was making about wider clearances putting a higher stress on components.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

> Things are usually hardened in racks or baskets, the whole component s hardened to the same degree.

Well, that's what ought to happen. I don't know how the process works, but I can see it must involve immersion in some medium, a fluid, gaz or why not even plasma. If something in the process isn't controlled right, that medium could well not be homogenous, resulting (I'd suppose) in uneven hardening.

Glad I read Feynmann's "What do you care what other people think" ... taught me not to be afraid to ask (apparently) obvious questions (also known as stupid questions) :D
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

and a (small) part of the really genius answers are among those (except we often don't realise that) ;)
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Chatting with a dealer on a French site, I learned by coincidence that he'd received a mail (e- or snail-) from Guzzi, causing him to stop riding the demo Stelvio. He says he thinks Guzzi apparently solved the issue because they instruct to change certain parts. I've asked him for more details.
(I am aware modified parts are being sent for replacement in affected bikes, but hadn't heard about something that almost sounds like a recall?!)
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

I have been following this with great interest and wisely withheld any of my uneducated, unasked for and ill informed comments.
I am now going to throw out a theory of what has occurred.

There are some bad valve train components that have been installed on some 8V motors.
It took Guzzi a whlle to comprehend this because of the limited number of 8V motors out there.
Knowing the agonizingly slow chain of corporate communication (and I couldn't comprehend the Italian business structure) it took a while to recognize , yes, there seems to be a problem so it get's passed on to the next level and so forth and so on.
Identifying that there is a problem and actually finding a solution is another time consuming phase.
I would not be surprised if Guzzi has at this time any idea of what bikes have the potentially bad components and what bikes do not.

It would be interesting to know if Guzzi batch builds, That is these certain motors/frames in production are destined to be shipped to this country and the next batch will go to
another ? That might explain why there have been different failure rates in different countries.

My unasked for 2 cents
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Here's some more info, hope to get more tomorrow.

The dealer who I got the info from apparently received a letter from Guzzi, instructing them to call the clients who bought 8V models from them, to "have certain parts replaced in the engine".

So no official recall letter sent around to all owners, which seems a bit "suspect", almost as if Guzzi chose France to test a particular solution to the issue?
I suggest everyone concerned contact their respective dealers to see if they received such a letter!
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

My dealer contacted the Dutch importer (Moto Tricolore) who in turn contacted Guzzi (Piaggio).
The answer: No recall in any country.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Just for information purposes get a chevy or ford lifter and have it tested it for hardness. Just as a comparison to the Guzzi lifters To get an idea how hard a lifter needs to be. Maybe a ford lifter would be better. Old chevy small blocks would eat a cam lobe every once in a while. Usually after 70,000 miles or so.
I worked for an engine rebuilder for quitw a few years. We sent the old cams out for regrinding. Then they were parkerized for hardening. They held up as well as a new camshaft. And the hardness was not very deep. I cant tell you what the hardness was though.
I wouldnt think the spring tension would be high enough to cause a major issue. Especially on the 8 valve motor with the smaller lighter valves hence lighter springs.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

A question: Were all the tappets checked, or just the one that failed?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

That's good news RJVB... I sure would like to know if they will act as a recall or if we'll have to deal with this on an individual basis...
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Papasloan wrote:
I wouldnt think the spring tension would be high enough to cause a major issue. Especially on the 8 valve motor with the smaller lighter valves hence lighter springs.
Click to expand...

They are rising rate 'Beehive' springs as well which makes it doubly doubtful I suppose but until I'd got something to test I wasn't willing to rule anything out, or in.

When I get a set of the *new* lifters for my bike I'll get one of mine tested and I'll take in one of the old pushrod motor type lifters from my munt-mountain as well and get it tested as well.

Greg, I only had the one lifter and it had failed but I got it tested on the stem which was un-damaged and they are a one piece lifter.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

maybe I missed it, but are there any good pictures of failed parts on the net? First part that fails is the pushrod/tappet?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

When I was sent the parts it was on the understanding that I wouldn't post pics. I have no idea why. Sorry.

I have seen lots of pics but only on the importer's computers, not on the web.

Yes, it is the tappet that fails first. My observations lead me to think that the tappet fails and then the cam fails at a later point. Obviously once the damage starts failure will be very rapid because things are happening very fast in there.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Wonder B wrote:
That's good news RJVB... I sure would like to know if they will act as a recall or if we'll have to deal with this on an individual basis...
Click to expand...

Maybe you missed my posting?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

So far there seems to be no suggestion of a recall. To me that either indicates that the factory doesn't think it warrants one or that they don't know which bikes are likely to be affected.

Any which way all machines will have to be done on an 'Individual' basis there is no magic wand to wave that will miraculously fix a whole swag of bikes all at once????

Pete
 
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