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'97 Cal. 1100i no go

P

paulkersey

Just got it firing!
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
7
Hello. I have a 1997 Cal. 1100i that has a problem. After doing a search on this board, I have checked the bike over pretty good and have yet to find the source of the trouble. Bike was running fine and suddenly the engine quit. Lights, horn, flashers and starter motor all work. No fuel pump or spark. I have known good relays and good fuses. When keyed on I have voltage to on relay #5 on both side of the coil. I can jump the #5 injector/computer relay socket, the fuel pump spools up for 5 seconds and the bike will fire up and run. All wiring and grounds seem to be good as does the continuity between different points according to the schematic. I have constant power at #5 and #6 relays.
Side stand switch has been disabled for years and the kill switch is working correctly.
I am a pipefitter/weldor by trade but I can use a VOM and follow a "water pipe" flow of electricity. Most solutions to the problems I've looked at seem to be fairly simple so I feel (hope) that I am missing the obvious. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thank you.
 
Sounds like there is a circuit interruption between the P8 ECU and the relay. I'm uploading the P8 manual for your reference. I hope it helps.
 

Attachments

  • P8_injection_manual.pdf
    2.4 MB · Views: 158
Thanks for the P8 manual as that is something I don't have. I do have the fuel injection manual so maybe between the two I'll make progress.
I'm kinda lost as to why I show voltage on both sides of the inj./computer relay coil but it doesn't make between (relay) pins 30 and 87.
 
paulkersey said:
Thanks for the P8 manual as that is something I don't have. I do have the fuel injection manual so maybe between the two I'll make progress.
I'm kinda lost as to why I show voltage on both sides of the inj./computer relay coil but it doesn't make between (relay) pins 30 and 87.
Click to expand...

If you have voltage on 85 and 86, you have no ground path to energize the relay, thus not go between pin 30 and 87. So start checking the controlling ground path for that relay. It could actually be an ECU fault, but let's hope not.
 
I'll spend some time doing that this evening. I'll report back tomorrow and thanks again for the help.
 
I checked the wiring for the inj./com. relay and it is good to all points.
The P8 ECU is over my head. I'm guessing it (relay coil) grounds through the ECU ?
Some pins on the ECU show grounded to the ECU body, some don't.
Since I depend on this bike for most daily transportation, how bad would I be messing up to install a SPST switch to replace the #5 relay (between #30 and #87 to take the place of a jumper) to get the bike to run ? When I've done this it runs fine but I don't want to make it worse.
Good grief, for a set of points and a carburetor.
 
No thanks, on the points and carburetors, I'm totally sold on the new stuff. The P8 was probably the first ECU on a guzzi. Well if it turns out that your ECU is failing, check out http://www.jefferies-au.org/MyECU/index.htm, I suspect the P8 are no longer available so he may be your only option beside a salvage yard. Contact Cliff to discuss options. If you can find a nearby guzzi owner with a P8, if willing, you can try to swap out the ECU to confirm a failed ECU diagnosis.

I'm no computer expert, but they are just many on/off switches. If one switch, within the ECU, is all that is malfunctioning, an external switch seem like a good temp fix, but I'd be worried that something else would be ready to fail at any given moment.
 
John, thanks for the help and link to the P8. I put a switch in place of the relay and, so far at 70 miles, all seems well.
Hopefully a $6 cure and not a bandaid. I've been riding my old 68 T120R - with it's simple fuel and ignition system.
Since it is a bike normally ridden Sunday mornings on relaxing country roads, the reversed foot shift/brake can get your heart pumping in traffic.
 
Considering the ECU has already started to fail, $200,00 for a spare ECU is cheap insurance. They will be come very hard to locate as time goes on.
 
First off, thanks for the help I've received. Here is an update and a couple of questions. I took John's advice and got the P8 ECU. Plugged it up and the bike fired right up. I put it all back together and fired it a couple of more times. Like a kid with a new toy. Then I went for a 12 mile ride and I believe the bike ran better (smother) than ever.
A few hours later however it would not start. All relays making, fuel pump runs and 12v. to the ignition modules and coils - both when the fuel pump initially pressurizes and when the start button is pushed. Modules have good grounds. No spark to the plugs.
I did put the old P8 back in and used the jumper (see first post) but still no go. I think it may be the PMS , or phase, camshaft sensor as I guess it's failure will not let the coils fire? I checked at the pigtail connector and have no resistance through the sensor at all. Also, I used the trouble code check lamp and got a trouble code of 1.2 , the phase signal sensor. Do you think I'm on the right track? I reckon it can fail at anytime but this seems like a weird coincidence. Thanks again.
 
paulkersey said:
First off, thanks for the help I've received. Here is an update and a couple of questions. I took John's advice and got the P8 ECU. Plugged it up and the bike fired right up. I put it all back together and fired it a couple of more times. Like a kid with a new toy. Then I went for a 12 mile ride and I believe the bike ran better (smother) than ever.
A few hours later however it would not start. All relays making, fuel pump runs and 12v. to the ignition modules and coils - both when the fuel pump initially pressurizes and when the start button is pushed. Modules have good grounds. No spark to the plugs.
I did put the old P8 back in and used the jumper (see first post) but still no go. I think it may be the PMS , or phase, camshaft sensor as I guess it's failure will not let the coils fire? I checked at the pigtail connector and have no resistance through the sensor at all. Also, I used the trouble code check lamp and got a trouble code of 1.2 , the phase signal sensor. Do you think I'm on the right track? I reckon it can fail at anytime but this seems like a weird coincidence. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I think you found it.
 
Glad you agree as that is a simple replacement. I will check the depth of the new against the old for the air gap.
Do you happen to know if a sensor off a '98 EV will work on a '97 Cal. ? Both are two wire and it looks like the wires are straight into the sensor vs a 90 degree angle as on my Jackal. The place that had the ECU has a sensor off the same bike plus I was going to order some other parts from them anyway. Thanks a lot.
 
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