• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

A bit more of a heads up on the 8V grenade issue.

Question for all you gurus:
(apparently living in OZ, hanging upside down as it were, makes the blood flow to the brain stronger...seems like the boys "down under" are better at divining the problems....)

Is there a connection with the new 8V eating tappets back to the old 8V doing the same?? My Centauro ate at least one.....
 
The tappet design is different. I think Phil A. got the old ones hardness tested and most of 'em were found wanting. The 'Old' Hi-Cams were unfortunately built at a time when Guzzi was going through one of it's periodic melt-down/sell-off's and some of the quality was decidedly patchy as well as the motor being a bit under-designed. The 'Old' Hi-Cam is very much a 1950's race motor stuck in a 1980's frame for sale in the 1990's:lol: . While the Nuovo Hi-Cam shares a lot of similarities it is overall a far more *modern* beast in terms of production and is far more suited to the road than the track.

Phil is probaby the bloke to talk to re. the 'Old' Hi-Cams but I'd think that one of the 'Hard Like Diamond' coaing processes would be a good option for the early tappets. I remain unconvinced that any such action is neccessary with the new ones.

Pete
 
Gary, when I said 'upgrades', I meant it in terms of a V1.0.1 or V1.1.x release, not necessarily something that would be made available (free of charge) for existing engines!

All modern 1100+ cc Guzzis for the US market have a side-stand that looks to be quite a bit better than the one found on the other markets. I'm still not sure I could replace mine with a US model, otherwise I'd already done it a long time ago!

Pete ... re. tyre pressure checking ... how come that can be difficult even at your venerable age ... when you've got a lift like yours? :silly:
 
I came accross this site which has some top info along with some good pics of the 1200 8v engine http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_misc.htm#eight_valve_1200cc_engine_images

My engine developed a loud ratteling noise today after a bit of a harsh ride out - temp was VCold Snow and Ice I rode the bike a bit harder than I meant to and being quite new to the Twin I flew through the rev limiter at least once during the ride. The noise is mostly on the right hand side bugger! will have to have a quick butchers at the tappets as described. Will have to be after xmas as off to Spain Tuesday for a week on the FJR and then to the UK for xmas with the kids...

I remember the CX500 problem mine went at 4444.4 miles exactly camchain adjusters I think I remember they did a mod on it and dinked a bevel in the block to show it had been done.

3529.jpg


I also had major problems with my 01 FJR which required a complete topend renewal due to valves so I am not a stranger with V1.0.0.0 bikes.

Any advice on what I might see when I look inside?
 
What another one, I dont believe it.....there isn't a problem with them you know !

You'll probably see 3mm tappit gaps probably. If your lucky like me the residue edge of the cam follower will be lodged in the cam assembly, the rest of the follower has gone down into the sump as metalic dust.
 
You're chasing your own tail Gary. We still have no idea if these engines have been properlly serviced.

I note in the other thread you state that the tappet clearance should be set at 0.1mm? Well, yes, the inlets should, the exhausts are supposed to be 0.15. Are they being set too tight?

Look, I'll keep saying it. I have no idea why this is happening for sure but of there was a design issue I'd expect them all to do it. If there was a metalurgy problem it should be easily identifiable by batch. To me, who has 30 years of observing the way the trade works, the most likely hypothesis is that workshops are cutting corners on initial servicing and this is giving rise to problems.

If someone, anyone, would be good enough to SEND me a set of the parts that have failed I will, at my own expense, take them off and have them forensically examined at the Australian Mint to check their dimensions and hardness. That would rule out, or in, problems in construction and manufacture. The ONLY way to separate fact from fiction here is by a long, slow process of ellimination but I remain convinced of the essential integrity of the design.

Pete
 
You'll have to blow your own Pete, all the parts go back to Italy. Couldn't even get pictures.
I can only talk about this issue because I've witnessed it first hand. I cant believe mine was serviced twice correctly then once wrongly but managed to cover 3000 miles before they went tits upLikre the one you saw, I believe, The cams only had light scoring and no real blueing.
As you know Pete, it's difficult to set a too tight gap as anyone with a bit of savvy knows that if the shim's stuck in there it's not right. A loose gap however will be judged on the pull resistance of the shim.
Mines been fixed so I aint that bothered. It was done quickly and efficiently by Guzzi and my dealer. I have no gripes about that. The only snag is that if they aint sure then I got the ame new bits as the last one so could be 100 miles or 10,000 miles to the next strip.
Glad you've seen it yourself now, yes it is baffalling, when you consider the varyences.
 
RJVB wrote:

Pete ... re. tyre pressure checking ... how come that can be difficult even at your venerable age ... when you've got a lift like yours? :silly:[/quote]

Bike only goes up on the bench when it needs servicing, ie, not very often:lol: Tyres get checked a bit more regularly.

I've gotta get a new one for the back today as all the squigly lines have rubbed off it.......

Pete
 
nomad wrote:
My engine developed a loud ratteling noise today after a bit of a harsh ride out - temp was VCold Snow and Ice I rode the bike a bit harder than I meant to and being quite new to the Twin I flew through the rev limiter at least once during the ride. The noise is mostly on the right hand side bugger! will have to have a quick butchers at the tappets as described. Will have to be after xmas as off to Spain Tuesday for a week on the FJR and then to the UK for xmas with the kids...


Any advice on what I might see when I look inside?

Sounds like it has done at least one follower doesn't it?

Don't ride it, get it to your dealer, let them sort it out. Using the motor once symptoms appear is only going to make things worse and lead to catastrophic failure.

What to look for? Lift the rocker cover and put the piston of the cylinder at TDC compression and feel the rockers, there should be only a tiny bit of play, 0.1mm inlet and 0.15 exhaust. Any more and it has done a foillower.

FWIW I checked mine again today and they haven't changed at all. I'm considering pulling the rocker gear on one side for a looksee but I really don't see why I should? I'll see one eventually that has gone pop. I'm currently trying to get a set of failed components so I can get them hardness tested. Why? Because I'm interested to see if I can identify why these parts are failing. The only way to do that is by process of elimination. It may well be that the factory will *solve* the problem, I'll be overjoyed if they do, but I'm also interested in WHY and we may never be told that. I for one find being left in the dark like that incredibly frustrating. For most people it probably isn't an issue, they just want a bike that works but perhaps I'm weird like that:laugh: .

Mind you, something HAS finally gone wrong with mine! it looks like its weeping oil from the front crank seal where the bottom pulley sits, bugger!:lol:

Pete
 
pete roper wrote:
You're chasing your own tail Gary. We still have no idea if these engines have been properlly serviced.

Iclearance should be set at 0.1mm? Well, yes, the inlets should, the exhausts are supposed to be 0.15. Are they being set too tight?

Look, I'll keep saying it. I have no idea why this is happening for sure but of there was a design issue I'd expect them all to do it. If there was a metalurgy problem it should be easily identifiable by batch. To me, who has 30 years of observing the way the trade works, the most likely hypothesis is that workshops are cutting corners on initial servicing and this is giving rise to problems.


Pete

You may be right Pete, but that would imply that only the dealers in a particular market are cutting corners, which seems unlikely.

is there any wayto inspect the tappet/follower and cams without lifting the valve gear?
 
Um I'm not sure what do you mean "lift the valve gear"?

Inspection only requires taking the tappet covers off - 20 mintues tops.
 
If wear is taking place it will be immediately apparent as Mike says when you whizz the rocker covers off, It'll manifest itself as much larger than normal valve clearances.

You CAN fairly easily lift the rocker carrier but it is held on by the same nuts that retain the head. While loosening/removing the carrier shouldn't compromise the head gasket there is always a risk that it might. You also need an RTG to correctly re-tension the head studs and many people don't have one of them.

Pete
 
??
From Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms (Version 1.9, June 2002):
RTG
Real Time Gambling
Real Time Geometry (manufacturer)
Routing Table Generator

Hmm... I'm sort of sure you're not talking about meaning #1, and quite sure that mysterious RTG ain't got to do with numbers 2 and 3 either... please don't make us post the list of all the things we don't have! :silly:
 
Thanks Pete, i was about to reply having studied the 3d images and manual, so deffo one for the dealer....
 
Gary wrote:
In Northern European English i'll be a tourque wrench.

No it won't, it's a radial torque guage, sorry, I've used and explained the term before but perhaps it was on the old board.

You need a torque wrench too for the initial torque setting then the RTG to finalise the clamp.

Pete
 
I just googled rtg and got bollox, explian please, or a pic.
I just checked the Guzzi manual and found the term 'Torque the head'
In normal terms that is ft/lb or n/m torque.
 
What are the odds that this can be similar to the hydraulic cam failures from a few years back.
On those, some, like mine, never showed a problem. Yet others would have parts replaced multiple times, and they would repeatedly failed again in a few thousand miles.

In the end, the fix was to replace all parts, INCLUDING the valve springs. It was said that they had a few batches of springs that were made wrong. The extra load on the valve train caused the failures (tappet heads worn off, to be found in the sump). Thus, putting in new cams, lifters and rockers, and the problem returned. Vicious cycle for the poor people that had a bad one.

When Luigi built up a head, if he grabbed the wrong spring from the box, you were doomed.

You have to wonder.......

Edit.
One thing about them though. The tappets certainly did rotate, even on a doomed one, cutting a nice round hole in the middle.

Can we blame in on the expensive oil. :laugh:
 
Gary wrote:
I just googled rtg and got bollox, explian please, or a pic.
I just checked the Guzzi manual and found the term 'Torque the head'
In normal terms that is ft/lb or n/m torque.

Just trawled through the manual on line. I was wrong, unlike the last of the pushrod machines you don't need an RTG which I have to say surprises me a bit as it has been industry standard with steel head gaskets since god was a boy. So yes, yo do just use a torque wrench with the 8V motor. Pre torque to 11 ft/lbs and then final torque to 31ft/lbs, whichh seems very low to me given there are only 4 studs?????

FWIW an RTG looks like a short socket extension with a protractor and pointer on it. After setting to an inital torque you tighten in one or more steps by degrees of turn. A common enough tool but not one used on Guzzis prior to the last of the pushrod models. They are used a lot on long motors with alloy heads carrying long camshafts as the clamping forces exerted are more accurate and there is less likelyhood of head deformation which if you are running very small clearances in cam bearings can be a serious issue.

Pete
 
Re:A bit more of a heads up on the 8V grenade issu

Based on what I hear, there's most likely a material-compatibility issue here. Or a breakdown in lubrication at the lobe/tappet interface. Or overly-progressive valve springs. Perhaps a bit of all three. Or maybe a machine is out of calibration that lines up the tappet bores.

Were it mine, I'd insist on running an SG-rated full synth. Surely, monitoring valve lash has to be wise, but intuition and a lot of experience in cam meltdown suggests to me that lack of valve maintenance is not the root of this problem.
 
Back
Top