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? about balancing TB's

kwn306

kwn306

High Miler
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
551
Location
Virginia, USA
I performed a service last week and brought the bike to my dealer to check / reset the TPS and to balance / sync the TB's.

The bike runs great while it is at operating temps but is cold natured now once started and when it is cold it does not start on the first try, i.e., it will start and die off after a few seconds and then restart and continue to run but does not like to take any throttle.

Now when the dealer check the sync on the TB's he did it at 3000 rpm, is this normal? I know nothing about syncing TB's / fuel injection bikes, just old 2 strokes and CV carb bikes which are done at a idle. I would also think that the TB's should be sync'ed at an idle.......am I correct?

I was thinking of putting my vacuum sync stick on the beast this weekend and see what it tells me, the bike almost acts like it is not getting any or very little fuel at an idle on one of the cylinders, but once you open up the throttle it comes to life.

Am I on the right track or blowing smoke up my own a$$? I guess I could also go out at night in the garage and see if the damn high tension leads are firing on the valve covers again, I've ordered a set of plug boots that Pete Roper reccomended.

Can any of you long time Guzzists set this newbie straight or at least in the correct direction. I going to a rally in two weeks and would love to take my Italian GS and show all the other Jap crap riders what a great bike the Guzzi is.
 
Kurt,

3000 RPM is good for the high speed sync. You can do the idle sync yourself as it does not impact the TPS. After the bike has been warmed up, close both air bypass screws. Hook up your vacuum sync tool. Open the air bypass screw on the side with the higher vacuum until equal. Let us know how it goes. If both are open you could be too lean when cold.
 
Oddly, mine had both air screws opened from the factory.
Normally, only the one with the highest vacuum at idle is opened. Which is the way it now is.
I can't say that mine idles any better when cold though either.
 
Kurt, in addition to what is noted above, be sure to block off the stepper motor air-feed line unless you have the option of switching it off. It's outlined in one of Grahams posts about Breva 1100 Tuning.
 
john zibell said:
Kurt,

3000 RPM is good for the high speed sync. You can do the idle sync yourself as it does not impact the TPS. After the bike has been warmed up, close both air bypass screws. Hook up your vacuum sync tool. Open the air bypass screw on the side with the higher vacuum until equal. Let us know how it goes. If both are open you could be too lean when cold.
Click to expand...

John,

Never done this so stupid questions :eek:

The air bypass screws.........are these facing the ground near the throttle body linkage, allen head (think their brass colored) you need to stand on your head to see them? is clockwise closed?
 
GT-Rx said:
Kurt, in addition to what is noted above, be sure to block off the stepper motor air-feed line unless you have the option of switching it off. It's outlined in one of Grahams posts about Breva 1100 Tuning.
Click to expand...

Todd,

This stepper motor shut off, I thought that was a 1100 motor issue, I guess I assumed wrong. Is this the line from the air box to the stepper motor, that line? Can I temporary plug it in the air box while syncing?
 
BTW fellows thanks for the assistance, I'm really buried at work and have not had anytime to reseach this issue.
 
kwn306 said:
The air bypass screws.........are these facing the ground near the throttle body linkage, allen head (think their brass colored) you need to stand on your head to see them? is clockwise closed?
Click to expand...

Yes, clockwise closes them.
 
kwn306 said:
GT-Rx said:
Kurt, in addition to what is noted above, be sure to block off the stepper motor air-feed line unless you have the option of switching it off. It's outlined in one of Grahams posts about Breva 1100 Tuning.
Click to expand...

Todd,

This stepper motor shut off, I thought that was a 1100 motor issue, I guess I assumed wrong. Is this the line from the air box to the stepper motor, that line? Can I temporary plug it in the air box while syncing?
Click to expand...


I haven't heard of any problems with the 1200 stepper motor either.
 
CORRECTION:

adjusting the high speed balance WILL affect the TPS, as it actually changes the linkage.

The air bleed screws will not alter TPS.
 
kwn306 said:
john zibell said:
Kurt,

3000 RPM is good for the high speed sync. You can do the idle sync yourself as it does not impact the TPS. After the bike has been warmed up, close both air bypass screws. Hook up your vacuum sync tool. Open the air bypass screw on the side with the higher vacuum until equal. Let us know how it goes. If both are open you could be too lean when cold.
Click to expand...

John,

Never done this so stupid questions :eek:

The air bypass screws.........are these facing the ground near the throttle body linkage, allen head (think their brass colored) you need to stand on your head to see them? is clockwise closed?
Click to expand...

I don't bypass the stepper since it introduces air equally to both sides. Also one the engine is warm, I don't think they do much. As for the air screws on the 8 valve engines, I've not seen them. On the 4 valve bikes (2 per cylinder) they are just a flat blade brass screw. Perhaps Wayne or Pete will tell you if they are Allen head. For standard threads, remember righty tighty, lefty Lucy!!! If you turn the air bypass screws the wrong way, it will be in your hand.
 
Spaceclam said:
CORRECTION:

adjusting the high speed balance WILL affect the TPS, as it actually changes the linkage.

The air bleed screws will not alter TPS.
Click to expand...

On mine, both sides have an idle stop screw and both rest against that screw at idle. Somewhat 'overriding' the linkage. So I can make minor linkage adjustments and the TPS / idle position remain the same.

I know that most spine framed Guzzis aren't like that. That hang from the linkage even at idle. But some DID have an idle stop on both sides.
 
Update on the beasts condition.......

Talked to my dealer yesterday afternoon, explained the issue and he didn't think the problem was due to anything with his TPI reset or sync. He asked me to check the right hand plug boot and wire to see if it was arcing on the head or valve cover (the left hand unit was replaced about 6K miles ago).

Well the wife and I checked for arcing in a dark garage last night and could not see any. It probably didn't help that the headlights were shinning on the backside of my garage door making it difficult to see. On a whim I pull the right side plug boot off and took electrical tape and made three passes from the right angle part of the boot to the area just outside the plastic beauty cover.

This morning I went to start the bike and it fired up just fine like it was brand new, no missing, no bucking and no snorting. The big beast ran perfectly going up the road this morning.

There has to be something breaking down on the high tension lead or plug boot somewhere and the electrical tape was enough to insulate or isolate the issue.

My new plug boots should be arriving today from NGK. What size / type (copper, steel, carbon) of plug wire should I purchase........you can still buy that stuff at a good auto parts store correct?

BTW, the right hand plug boot is the new up graded unit installed when the cam / tappet upgrade was done, so I guess they are no better than the originals.
 
kwn306 said:
My new plug boots should be arriving today from NGK. What size / type (copper, steel, carbon) of plug wire should I purchase........you can still buy that stuff at a good auto parts store correct?
Click to expand...

Just cut off the old caps and screw the NGK caps into the wire in their place.
 
The old caps should just unscrew.

I'm not sure there is enough wire length to install the NGK straight caps. It can be an issue finding plain wire. Most auto places only sell complete sets that are made up. Maybe mail order from a speed shop like Summit Racing.
 
Wayne Orwig said:
The old caps should just unscrew.

I'm not sure there is enough wire length to install the NGK straight caps. It can be an issue finding plain wire. Most auto places only sell complete sets that are made up. Maybe mail order from a speed shop like Summit Racing.
Click to expand...

Wayne,

Should I get copper or steel wire and what size (6, 7 or 8mm)?
 
kwn306 said:
Wayne Orwig said:
The old caps should just unscrew.

I'm not sure there is enough wire length to install the NGK straight caps. It can be an issue finding plain wire. Most auto places only sell complete sets that are made up. Maybe mail order from a speed shop like Summit Racing.
Click to expand...

Wayne,

Should I get copper or steel wire and what size (6, 7 or 8mm)?
Click to expand...


I suspect they are resistor wires. If so, non-resistors may (or may not) cause interference with the ECU sensors. If it is resistor, I would stick with resistor.
No idea on the size. Should be easy to measure.
 
There should be plenty of slack in the high tension leads to allow fitment of the aftermarket caps. Simply unscrew the factory ones, install the top grommet on the lead, screw on the cap, pull the grommet down to the top of the cap, install bottom, (Plug end.) grommet and push it home on the plug. Route the HT lead careflly under the cover and screw it back on, install shitty little badge. Job done.

Pete
 
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