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Adjust Stelvio Idle
- Thread starter cmsmolka
- Start date
You can't. It is controlled by the stepper motor. Is that 1400 by the tach or from diagnostic software? It is better for the idle to be a little high than low. The new engines do well at 1250-1300, so I wouldn't worry about a 1400 idle too mich.
Has the bike been properly set up? Valve adjustment, synchronization and TPS reset? When adjusting the idle synchronization one air bypass screw should be closed completely and the other open only enough to achieve balance. If you go to check this yourself you will need VDSTS to reset the TPS.
Also there is a thread on the board about placing a restriction in the air supply line to the stepper motor. That may or may not help.
Has the bike been properly set up? Valve adjustment, synchronization and TPS reset? When adjusting the idle synchronization one air bypass screw should be closed completely and the other open only enough to achieve balance. If you go to check this yourself you will need VDSTS to reset the TPS.
Also there is a thread on the board about placing a restriction in the air supply line to the stepper motor. That may or may not help.
Sorry but I disagree that you can't adjust the idle. There are idle adjust screws on each throttle body. The one on the right side of the bike is a pain to get at because the screw faces inboard but if you have the right length of allen wrench (2.5mm) it can be done. I adjusted mine down to 1100rpm from 1400 with no problems. Makes for a much more civilized ride. And by the way, anything more than 1100rpm on an air cooled motorcycle is unhealthy in my humble opinion.
DanPez
Cruisin' Guzzisti
If adjustements of the idle screws are done without a U-tube and /or software to verify the stepper motor values ...chances are you will unbalanced the two cylinders.
The idle value is set by the ECU. If the rpms are high most probable the "scare screw" TPS screw may have been tampered with.
The idle value is set by the ECU. If the rpms are high most probable the "scare screw" TPS screw may have been tampered with.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
(Sigh) As John says, the idle is controlled by the stepper. Check what the speed is with a diagnostic tool rather than relying on the dash. Make sure it is properly tuned and set up, DO NOT try and adjust the idle by messing with ANY of the screws on the throttle bodies or moving the linkage rod. If you do you will a.) invalidate your warranty. b.) fuck-up the TPS signal which is a PAIN to re-correct accurately.
As for the comment about 'Anything over 1100 being too high for an air cooled engine'. Sorry, the 8V motor is NOT an air cooled motor it is an OIL cooled motor with air-assist. Slow the crank down and you also slow down the oil pumps. Since one of those pumps is delivering the coolant to the top end of the engine and the underside of the pistons do you think its a good idea to reduce the flow? Especially when the motorbike isn't moving so the 'Air Cooling' component is minimal? If you do? Go for your life. But don't then be surprised if your engine overheats and/or wears out substantially quicker than motors running a higher idle speed.
Pete
As for the comment about 'Anything over 1100 being too high for an air cooled engine'. Sorry, the 8V motor is NOT an air cooled motor it is an OIL cooled motor with air-assist. Slow the crank down and you also slow down the oil pumps. Since one of those pumps is delivering the coolant to the top end of the engine and the underside of the pistons do you think its a good idea to reduce the flow? Especially when the motorbike isn't moving so the 'Air Cooling' component is minimal? If you do? Go for your life. But don't then be surprised if your engine overheats and/or wears out substantially quicker than motors running a higher idle speed.
Pete
If 1100 rpm is too low, why is it the recommended rpm on the Stelvio 8V? And in my opinion this is an air-cooled motor with an oil-cooler assist. And I agree you shouldn't goof around with the linkage rod between the throttle bodies. I come from a BMW airhead background and am used to setting the idle by ear. I just backed down those idle stop screws until it sounded good, with a bit of trial and error. My bike is out of warranty by the way. Yes, I hear you on the need to be very careful on these bikes that are controlled by ECU etc. but I think the idle adjustment is rather unobtrusive. Perhaps I'm out to lunch on this. Also with respect, the argument that the oil pump isn't servicing the engine at 1100rpm makes no sense to me. Remember, this is a very old and proven engine block with new heads and fuel management. Just my 2 cents worth. I don't want to offend on my first posts to this fine web-site!
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Apart from certain outward similarities the 8V engine is completely different to earlier models be they 2 valve per cylinder or 4 valve per cylinder. I didn't say that the oil pumps wouldn't service the engine I said that they would do the job better if the idle speed is higher and buggering about with any of the screws on the TB's, apart from the ballance adjuster under the LH TB and the air bleed screws should, on any machine that is set up correctly, should be un-neccessary.
While YOUR bike may be out of warranty many others who visit this site own machines that ARE in warranty still and they need to remember, some need to be informed, that buggering about with some adjustments WILL invalidate their warranty.
If people want to screw about with their machines? Thats fine, its no skin off my nose. What pisses me off is the fact that I'm often the poor idiot who is expected to un-screw them up and who has to endure the bullshit moaning about what a disappointment Guzzi is when the vast majority of the problems I find with the newer models are self or ignoramus inflicted.
Pete
While YOUR bike may be out of warranty many others who visit this site own machines that ARE in warranty still and they need to remember, some need to be informed, that buggering about with some adjustments WILL invalidate their warranty.
If people want to screw about with their machines? Thats fine, its no skin off my nose. What pisses me off is the fact that I'm often the poor idiot who is expected to un-screw them up and who has to endure the bullshit moaning about what a disappointment Guzzi is when the vast majority of the problems I find with the newer models are self or ignoramus inflicted.
Pete
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Oh wake up to yourself, pillock!
Pete
Pete
tedster said:
Nothing offensive in what Pete wrote. In fact, I thought it was rather mild considering what you did.
I take it it's idling at 1400 with the engine warmed up? like Pete and John say 1400 is no big deal, but if it's bothering you have you checked to see if your throttle cables are adjusted properly? If the opening cable is too tight... high idle, 'cause the throttle plates wont be fully closed. I set my cable to have just a hair of play with the twistgrip closed. My stelvio once it was all set up correctly has idled around 1250 +/- everytime since. Just a thought.
FBC
FBC
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
cmsmolka said:
If 1400 is too high, then the ECU should be trying to slow it down via the stepper motor.
So does that mean there is an air leak? A bad stepper motor? TB air screws opened too far? Or the ECU is fine with 1400 (don't trust the tach).
I always aim for about 1200 to 1300 on the Guzzis without stepper motors. And this has a lighter flywheel, so I wouldn't be put off by 1300 to 1400.
How many miles on this bike?
If it is fairly new, I would leave it alone. The first service, valve adjust, TPS set, TB sync, my move it down a touch.
Or, maybe it was serviced wrong.
Either way, there isn't much that you want to do without the VDSTS, Axone or Navigator setup.
notasweetman
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Just caught this thread after a period of expense and frustration with my beloved beast. I hope this adds to the sum of knowledge out there.
I had the thing serviced at about 12000 and it lost cold start idle. Started fine, but wouldn't tick over until at least 3-5 miles. My mechanic and I managed track it down to the stupidity of mounting the engine re-breather pipe into the air box just beside the pipe leading to the idle control valve (at the top end of the box behind the battery). The throttle bodies were caked in goo and the idle pipe was damn near blocked.
3 1/2 hours labour to take the tank apart, extract the idle control system, clean the throttle bodies and idle pipe. Bike's now running like a very tall, top heavy kangaroo on Duracell. Fuel consumption's way better too!
Solution - find the engine breather pipe (exits from the frame just to the left of the headstock), follow it round to the airbox, pull the pipe off the box, plug the intake and spice in more tube to vent the pipe to atmosphere down by the rear shock.
This is working for me - 500 miles on and still rockin'.
Hope this helps.
I had the thing serviced at about 12000 and it lost cold start idle. Started fine, but wouldn't tick over until at least 3-5 miles. My mechanic and I managed track it down to the stupidity of mounting the engine re-breather pipe into the air box just beside the pipe leading to the idle control valve (at the top end of the box behind the battery). The throttle bodies were caked in goo and the idle pipe was damn near blocked.
3 1/2 hours labour to take the tank apart, extract the idle control system, clean the throttle bodies and idle pipe. Bike's now running like a very tall, top heavy kangaroo on Duracell. Fuel consumption's way better too!
Solution - find the engine breather pipe (exits from the frame just to the left of the headstock), follow it round to the airbox, pull the pipe off the box, plug the intake and spice in more tube to vent the pipe to atmosphere down by the rear shock.
This is working for me - 500 miles on and still rockin'.
Hope this helps.
2or4strokes
Just got it firing!
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 9
Hi guys , need some opinions here on something I've done. I don't know whether this is the right place to write this but my stelvio 2008 had the adjuster screws tampered with when I bought it. However I was able to make it run with the guzzidag software and also using the right cylinder (sitting on the bike )as a base to set the throttle position to 4.8 degrees .i was able to syn it and idling was fine and consistent about 1250rpm. Lately because of these tampered screws I decided to confirm the exact throttle openings on both throttle bodies and work on the linkage throttle screws to achieve a constant manometer reading with both air bleed valves closed. I found out that if turned the linkage screw and with a little help with the air bleed screw only on one side I could get the bike syn on idle and at 3000rpm. When warmed the bike idle at 1200 or 1300 rpm and was sweet and smooth.
However on a cold start the next day the engine was running lumpy but it could idle and certainly it's not running on one cylinder . It sounded like it's off syn.. However immediately attaching a manometer shows its ok although it doesn't sound right. So I brought the bike for a ride and once it's warmed up the bike idle perfectly and ran very smooth and powerful all the way to about 7000 rpm or more. Can someone shed some light to this, did I set syn incorrectly that idling is as such or is the stepper motor on its way out .. I believe if I revert to my old way of setting it without turning the linkage screw I could make the bike idle as constant as previously but it doesn't run so well although the vacuum readings are similar . Any thoughts
However on a cold start the next day the engine was running lumpy but it could idle and certainly it's not running on one cylinder . It sounded like it's off syn.. However immediately attaching a manometer shows its ok although it doesn't sound right. So I brought the bike for a ride and once it's warmed up the bike idle perfectly and ran very smooth and powerful all the way to about 7000 rpm or more. Can someone shed some light to this, did I set syn incorrectly that idling is as such or is the stepper motor on its way out .. I believe if I revert to my old way of setting it without turning the linkage screw I could make the bike idle as constant as previously but it doesn't run so well although the vacuum readings are similar . Any thoughts
Sounds like you made the best of a not good situation. Stepper is probably OK and the lumpy idle cold is due to being a bit lean. If she is fine after warming up I'd leave it alone. The bike isn't made to idle, but to ride. In my opinion the sync at 3,000 rpm and higher is more important that the idle sync.
P
PP-1753
Guest
Target idle can be changed via a value in the ECU map. As comments say above, if it's set up correctly (throttle bodies balanced and the TPS reset, and repeat until there is no differences, ad finatum) you should not need to change your idle. The throttle bodies are set up in the factory and should be left untouched, unless by a knowing person. the R/H throttle adjust screw is SACRED and should never be touched and is the foundation for the TPS.
Th L/H throttle adjust screw is for balancing the vacuum in the throttle bodies. This process can be laborious but needs to be done just the same.
Now if you want to go down the target idle value in the map, that is an entirely different matter. It still requires that the Throttles are balanced and the TPS set correctly BEFORE you try a different idle value. Even then, it it only a target, and not an absolute value. The further you get from standard, the more likely your engine will hunt in trying to find this idle.
Clean throttle bodies (I mean they need to be removed and cleaned properly, all linkages, return springs and air pipes, and the stepper as well - not easy to pull apart and will cost $$$ if wrecked in the process) are the key to a steady tickover - whatever the idle speed - and having it all setup correctly.
Once done, it should not need touching for many thousands of miles/kilometres - and I mean 30,000 or more. Overfilling your sump is your biggest enemy - the excess gets sucked into the airbox and usually finds its way into the R/H throttle body and gums it up.
Sermon ended.
Th L/H throttle adjust screw is for balancing the vacuum in the throttle bodies. This process can be laborious but needs to be done just the same.
Now if you want to go down the target idle value in the map, that is an entirely different matter. It still requires that the Throttles are balanced and the TPS set correctly BEFORE you try a different idle value. Even then, it it only a target, and not an absolute value. The further you get from standard, the more likely your engine will hunt in trying to find this idle.
Clean throttle bodies (I mean they need to be removed and cleaned properly, all linkages, return springs and air pipes, and the stepper as well - not easy to pull apart and will cost $$$ if wrecked in the process) are the key to a steady tickover - whatever the idle speed - and having it all setup correctly.
Once done, it should not need touching for many thousands of miles/kilometres - and I mean 30,000 or more. Overfilling your sump is your biggest enemy - the excess gets sucked into the airbox and usually finds its way into the R/H throttle body and gums it up.
Sermon ended.
It's a while since I balanced the TBs but Isn't it the LH stop that is the sacred screw and the R/H one adjusted via the connecting rod adjustment screw?
Alan NZ
P
PP-1753
Guest
No Alan. never touch anything on the R/H side, and only the L/H side if you know what you are doing...
Alan, only one side has a throttle stop screw. I know on the Breva/Norge that is on the left side as you suggest. The linkage adjustment screw on the left moves the relation of the throttle rod to the left throttle shaft. See https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/resources/breva-1100-general-service-manual.24/
2or4strokes
Just got it firing!
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 9
Hi Oz 1200 Guzzi
Are you saying the idle value can be changed on the Ecu map on the guzzidag software ? If yes I will find out more. Today I rode the bike again and apparently it ran very well and pull like a train and somehow the idling was much better when I fiddle with the co trimm...