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Air temp to Oil Temp Dash Conversion

Discussion in 'CARC' started by ghezzi, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Yes guys it is true, I was so bored this morning I started reading the Bellagio wiring diagram - gotta getta life!

    One would assume all Carc bikes would share similar systems so this is what I found.
    The 'cylinder head temp' sensor and the 'intake air temp' sensor are connected with a single input to the ECU. So I wondered where my dashboard ambient temp info came from.

    Turns out on the Bellagio, Pin 10 at the dashboard - orange wire connects to 'Intrument Panel Air Temperature Thermistor', the (red) earth wire of which joins the earth wire running from the left hand switch block.
    (Other than that I don't know what I'm looking for)

    Anyway, if we can determine the resistance/ohms/whatevers range it operate in, could we not insert a similar 'oil temp' sensor in an oil line/galley for "OIL TEMP" reading on the dash?

    This could be very handy for you oil head 8V boys.
     
  2. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Ghezzi, This is good!

    On the Sport the dash thermistor is on the back of the mini dash panel just below the main instrument cluster/panel (where the hazard light switch is and maybe the heated bars and ABS on/off). It is around 3-4mm dia from memory (don't trust it - I don't) and will probably have a part number on it. If you get that far and can't find any info on it, let me know and I can probably get the specs.

    The only problem I see here is the temp range the dash computer can display. Considering that the oil temp will probably be over 100 degrees C, the display area may not have sufficient space, or the dash computer may chuck a hissy fit trying to calculate something this big. Otherwise it looks like a nice little project - we all know on the east coast how much riding time we are losing due to the "summery" weather.

    Why not I say!
     
  3. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Electronics can be a funny thing, I had a digital PUSH BIKE speedo on my Cali for touring Victoria a few years ago.
    It would read to 299kph, apparently.

    Anyhow, I have no means or capability to research this much further, so please, knock yourself out.
    But I'm thinking (dangerous territory), if the oil temp sensor uses the same range of resistance whatsy's thingomy's, per degrees as shown on the dash, as what the air temp thermistor does, then ...............

    I mean, even if the dash has a microprossessor to calculate and convert Ohms to degrees, it would only be prohibited if max values were included in the program.

    Are there any electronics engineers on this forum?
    I'd love to convert my electronic anologue speedo to a nice large white faced tacho, and give the clock the flick and have my speed recorded digitally
     
  4. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    Have you had a look at the Spanish Moto Guzzi 'Jarama' project, based on a Bellagio, to see if they changed the dash? If they didn't, it's probably for a good reason, like some sort of communications between the dash and the ECU (likely multiplexed, i.e. CAN or a similar protocol).
     
  5. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Jarama dash is stock.
    That bike is purely a cosmetic make over, they have added pod filters which would neccessitate a PV-5 to tune and run properly. They have the standard mufflers unmodified, just re-positioned.
    Spanish noise and emission laws may be prohibitive, stock mufflers have cat-con inside.

    https://www.guzzitech.com/attachments/ ... io_940.gif
    According to this wiring diagram (from Carl Ellison) Dash pin 26 "CAN H Line" and pin 26 "CAN L Line" That bit will stop most of us, period.

    Unfortunately there is gross confusion between the grey and black plugs of the ECU and pin # descriptions don't match wire connections. So that'll slow down the electronics engineers.
     
  6. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Ghezzi,

    Further to the recent posts, you could put in a sensor that reads in double digit degrees but you would mentally add the hundred digit. So 50 degrees C would actually be 150 degrees C - that's if the digits don't fit...
     
  7. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Don't we have the option on our dash of either Celsius and Fahrenheit?
    I would think a hot day in America would read at least 102*, (3 digits).

    Anybody ever experience the opposite to the snow flake symbol?
    Ever see 3 digit temp on a bloody hot day?
     
  8. mohawkeye

    mohawkeye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Yes. 107 :eek:
     
  9. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Looks like it might work, Ghezzi. Get me the component ID and I will chase up the info. Thanks Mohawkeye.
     
  10. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Hi Tony,
    Part # AP8124936 is the 'Air temp. Sensor' attached to the dashboard plug. Same fitment as all late model CARC bikes although the parts manuals I could access for those did not have the part numbered in the picture, nor a part number listed below. US$29 via AF1

    The "AP" designates it as an Aprilia part and it is also listed for the Shiver, Mana, Caponard, Futura and some of the scooters, dating as far back as 2001. So its a generic part used across the board, meaning info and tech details just might be available. :ugeek:

    Dashboard 'Air temp. Sensor' (AP8124936) .................... EFI 'Air temp. Sensor' (GU30729330)
    Resistance at 0*C: 32.5 kOhm .................................. Resistance at 0*C: 9.750 kOhm
    Resistance at 25*C: 10.0 kOhm ................................. Resistance at 20*C: 3.750 kOhm
     
  11. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Ghezzi,

    it looks like one with similar characteristics to the air temp sensor in the dash may be the go. If I can get the manufacturers part number I can probably tell more and possibly advise on a suitable oil temp sensor. Who's going to pull the dash apart first?
     
  12. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    I've been able to identify the EFI air temp sensor as a Magneti Marelli ATS05.

    My dash misted up the day I bought it, been wanting to correct that before it happen again, also the chrome bezel pisses me off by reflecting sun in my eyes, needs a matt black paint job.

    Anybody know a good Aussie electronics guru, would like to see feasability of tacho conversion.
     
  13. BellagioBob

    BellagioBob Tuned and Synch'ed

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  14. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Actually I have had a Koso guage in mind for a Tacho, didn't realize it had a temp (water) read out as well.

    Kill two birds ......................
    Its on my shopping list, thanks Bob.

    Ps. Limited to a max of 120*C/250*F
     
  15. organfixsing

    organfixsing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    G'day ghezzi
    On the circuit diagram for BREVA 1100, the Air Temperature Sensor goes to pins 5 & 20.
    Engine temperature Sensor goes to pins 14 & 20.

    They are not using chassis return but have a common wire for this, i.e. pin 20.
    The wires that convey the sense are on different terminals.

    Just to confuse the issue, the parts manual for BREVA 1100 refers to the sensor as:-
    Oil Temperature Sensor Part No. GU29729461

    Cheers
    Brian :? :)
     
  16. kampe

    kampe Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I have been thinking of the same thing, turning the ambient temp into an oil temp. Maybe letting both readings alternate every few sec. The promblem i have is that i need a good place to screw in an temp sensor so it takes readings from the oil. Anny thoughts about that ????
     
  17. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    You already have an engine temp sensor on board. I believe the temp curve for that sensor and the air sensor are the same. Alternate locations would be the oil fill, and oil drain holes. You would need a sensor that is on par with the air temp to convert voltage to temp accurately.
     
  18. kampe

    kampe Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    If the resitance curve is the same than it would be easy to fit an extra in the oil drain hole. I'll look into it.
     
  19. Phang

    Phang Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Hopefully Luigi didn't put a line in the dash firmware programming to ignore temperature above sensible ambient temperature.
     
  20. pyoungbl

    pyoungbl Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    That means doing away with the magnet on the drain plug. I always thought the magnet was a darn good idea. I guess you could just put some magnets on the oil filter and accomplish much the same but you'd lose visual accumulation of swarf that tells you something about engine condition.
     

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