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Alpina Spokes a death wish?

beezer

beezer

Just got it firing!
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
14
Well you are looking at one lucky dude. Yesterday riding two up at 65 miles per hour, my brand new tire that I had checked the pressure on just before the ride blew out. Moments earlier I had a vague sensation of looseness which I blamed on a strong cross wind. Somehow, I managed to countersteer my way to a gradual stop as I eased it over to the side of the road. At least four times the bike was running sideways and skittering down the road.
Fortunately the wife stayed still, closed her eyes and said a prayer. It certainly didn't hurt.
The rim of the wheel is marked up badly. While I don't have the evidence yet, I am pretty sure one of those spoke seals let down the pressure and before I realized it was flat, the sidewall blew out. I am having the shop 200 miles a way mount a new tire and asked them to check the spokes for leaks. Then I am having them take it off and remount the tire with a tube.
The whole idea of another 30 points of failure on a tire is stupid. Until I know otherwise, I recommend everyone install a tube on these wheels.
I will keep you guys informed. Has anyone else had problems?
 
I was afraid those wheels could have this problem, but I'm not aware of any other catastrophic failures. I'd also recommend a rim band to protect the tube when you install one. I'd get the front as well since you had this problem.
 
I've come across several rear wheels where the spokes loosened enough to (slowly) bleed pressure. I've replaced spokes on one rim where the tire blew out (unrelated to the spokes) and the bike rode on the rim for several hundred feet... which needed the spokes replaced several months later when several of them broke where the bend meets the hub.
It should be part of the basic maintenance to check the tightness, and torque is spec'ed from 5 up to 7 NM (Max).
So it looks like we should all keep our eyes on them, thanks for the post, and good job on keeping it upright.

FYI, I have the *ONLY* Alpina Certified Service person here in SoCal for repair of these wheels. The dealers are told to replace the wheel if it comes out of true/spokes loosen, or if the wheel is damaged in any way.
 
Whoa ... Somehow I have this hunch that this isn't like with bicycles, where replacing a wheel is usually way cheaper than straightening one...?
 
While I can't for the life of me see why Guzzi have gone with this, basically, downright odd way of running tubeless tyres I'd have to say that simply because you've had a flat and after, as you yourself say, there is 'Substantial Rim Damage' it can be sheeted home to a spoke failure.

Personally I think they are bonkers not to chuck-up for Boher (Sp) rims with the peripheral spokes but no doubt the Alpinas are cheaper, that's always the reason!

I'd love a set of spokes on my 8V G. As it is I'm happy with the Brembo castings!

Pete
 
IMHO, the peripheral spokes tubeless wheel prohibits the use of large diameter brake rotor and chunky brake caliper. My G8VSE 17” front wheel leaves very little room for the 320mm rotors + 4 pots Brembo combo.

I had the impression that those alpina nipple will leak slowly even in the case of complete o-ring failure. The tolerance between the nipple and the hole on the rim should allow the rider to pull over safely. In addition to that, it has a C ring to hold the nipple in place so that it will continue to hold and seal in the event of a broken spoke.

Having said that, your encounter made me rethink what I have read about the alpina tubeless wheel again.

Phang

alpinaSTS.jpg
 
When I installed the NTX rear rim on my 09 Stelvio, I took some high temp, oil & grease resistant, form a gasket RTV (Permitex in a silver / greyish colored tube) and covered the end of the spokes, one 3.5 oz tube did one wheel, I have not lost any air in the tires since performing that task.

I think it was like $5/tube, Woodies Wheel Works charges $99 per wheel for the same service, all though they use a ton more silicone. BTW, Woodies uses bath tub caulk.

When I change out the tires the next time, I will check the spokes for tighteness, remove silicone from the loose spoke, adjust as necessary and recover the adusted loose spoke with new RTV before mounting the new tire.

This is an easy, cheap solution. Now all I need is for my dealer to fix the damn bike so I can ride.
 
You haven't ruled out that you didn't simply have a bad tire with a bead that did not seal or even a puncture that you haven't seen. As stated, I am worried that those spokes will leak when the o-rings get old, but it should be just a slow annoying leak. It shouldn't just all escape while in the middle of a ride.

I'm not going to get in a panic.
 
First off ... nice recovery Beezer!

I can't imagine that a leak from the O-ring would cause a blow-out unless the nipple was missing C ring to hold it in.
Even then a pot hole would certainly be a cause to force the nipple to come out of it's seat.

With time those O-ring will definitely dry up!
Is the basic maintenance required whenever the tire is changed?
 
You guys are right that I may be jumping to conclusions. The fact I sensed some drift prior to the blowout of the sidewall tells me it leaked out fairly slowly at first and the sidewall blewout because it was running flat. But the tire had been installed only a few days ago and could have been defective or somehow fouled up the install. And although it had been just 200 miles you can't rule out picking up a nail. This is going to take some research but at least I will be doing the forensics on the tire instead of having it performed on me.
The spokes were not leaking before the new tire was installed because I never had to add air last year.
That is why I am having him install a new tire, check for spoke leaks and then remount the tire with a tube. I will keep you up to date. Picking the bike up on Saturday.
 
Beezer, nice job saving the bike, yourself and your passenger!

I will be very interested in hearing the results of your investigation.

Bruce
 
Just an FYI: I got a new tire mounted & balanced last Friday, took it home, tried to add some air, and found that the valve stem was spinning loose. Accidently pushed the stem in and air whooshed out. The shop owner had checked the stem prior to mounting the tire, then on Saturday found that the nut holding the stem to the tire side of the rim was loose.
 
Looking at some ADV products I ran into this for the ..... extreme riders?
Whatever the case I imagine this would solve the problem of leaky spokes.

[youtube]nrNpccioeWI[/youtube]

Anyone have tried this?
Comments?

Cheers
 
Dan, I bet those wheels cost an arm and a leg :sick:

I am more concerned about the moment of inertial generated by those enormous chunks of aluminum and pins at the outer perimeter of the rim. But hey! At least I don’t have to worry about the 72 points of failure on my wheels (74 if you are counting the tire valves).
shrug.gif


Phang
 
beezer said:
You guys are right that I may be jumping to conclusions. The fact I sensed some drift prior to the blowout of the sidewall tells me it leaked out fairly slowly at first and the sidewall blewout because it was running flat. But the tire had been installed only a few days ago and could have been defective or somehow fouled up the install. And although it had been just 200 miles you can't rule out picking up a nail. This is going to take some research but at least I will be doing the forensics on the tire instead of having it performed on me.
The spokes were not leaking before the new tire was installed because I never had to add air last year.
That is why I am having him install a new tire, check for spoke leaks and then remount the tire with a tube. I will keep you up to date. Picking the bike up on Saturday.
Click to expand...

So everyone should get a kick out of the end of this story. So as I said, the bike was towed to the nearest dealer that could put a tire on for me which of course was a Harley shop. When I went to pick up the bike, I discussed with the technician what he had found. He reported that the old tire was pretty well roached and other that the obvious blowouts in the sidewall, he could not see any other obvious leak. The valve stem was not tested, but the lock nut was still in place. He mounted the new tire without a tube and checked the spokes for leaks. He could find none. He remounted the tire with a rim strip and inner tube.
Since the bike had been towed there on a holiday and they had no drop box, I could not leave the key, so the bike had never been road tested. I looked it over and noted that the tie wrap I had replaced on the brake line speed sensor wire when I had removed the wheel to get the first tire replaced, was still there and remember being a little perturbed that he had not taken the trouble to remove it when lifting the caliper to get the wheel off. But, it looked OK.
So I got on the bike and started back home. The dealer is on the top of a large hill and has a very steep driveway back down to the road. I started picking up a lot of speed and decided I better scrub a little off. I had noted the drive had some of that super slick sandy gravel on it, so I figured I would go gently to just the rear brake. Well, when I stepped on it the first time, it had no resistence and went to full travel. Before I could think things through, the auto instincts kicked in and I quickly lifted up and stroked down again to pump the rear brake. It came full on, locked the rear wheel and dumped the bike down hard at 35 miles an hour. As I slide down the driveway, I could hear the bike behind scraping along and thinking man, that thing is going to be a mess. Feel free to lecture me on all the things I could have done to prevent this. I deserve it all. Clearly the caliper had been pushed back and the brake never pumped back up. That first stroke must have brought the pads back to just short of the disk and the next stroke brought the brakes to full on instantly.
So here is the final tally.
Driver: Turns out I am apparently allergic to asphalt as I broke out immediately in a very bad, raw, bleeding rash on my elbows, knees and shoulders. My left shoulder was tweaked pretty bad, and a sprained left foot, right hip and right thumb. I went to the hospital the next day and confirmed three or four ribs were cracked as well. It is now four weeks later, and I am feeling good. I was able to start riding my old Guzzi again after two weeks.
Bike: The bike was shipped by the insurance company to the Guzzi dealer in Cleveland and placed immediately into intensive care. I went there today and it was sad put I had to pull the plug and put it out of its misery. Those of you that have a Stelvio in the U.S., yours just became a little more rare. So I am looking for a new bike. I had full MSRP insurance coverage so the damages are limited to a lost riding season and my own injuries. I liked the Stelvio and the 2012 version (with cast wheels) seams to take care of what minor complaints I had with the old one, but I had contacted Guzzi about the gas tank venting problem and the resulting paint damage and they were giving me the stiff arm claiming it is not a warranty issue etc, excuses, ad naseum. I also had a left rear turn signal that stopped working when the bike got hot. I was getting the "are you sure?" B.S. from Guzzi. This has annoyed me greatly and between that and the concerns I have that the brand may not survive have me considering my options. Triumph has their adventure bike line and then there is the Multi-strada and of course the BMW GS. I find the German's engineering and attitude just pisses me off, so they are probably out. The Japanese bikes like the Tenare and cross tourer just don't instill any passion at all. Suggestions are welcome.
 
fatal said:
get another stelvio, you should be luckier next time round. :)
Click to expand...
I noticed you have a GS and a Tiger. Can you tell me more why you like the stelvio over the GS and Tiger?
 
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