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Aux Fuel Tank

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by Ray R, Dec 20, 2009.

  1. RokonRon

    RokonRon Tuned and Synch'ed

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    This is starting to get off topic, so I started a new on called "Narrowing side bags". Check it out there.
     
  2. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.......

    Here's a photo of the fuel filler neck. I'm looking for a way to tap into this for the aux tank fuel line. At $10 for the part, I think it's worth a try.

    I'm thinking I'll cut one end off the blue nipple and use the remaining flange with a rubber washer as the seal against the inside of the neck. Then add a rubber and metal washer on the outside to make a solid seal and use the barbed fitting as the nut that tightly holds it all in place.

    The next photo is looking at the gas cap as it would appear in the rubber neck from inside the tank. As you can (almost) see, it protrudes into the filler neck enough that the flange might interfere with the cap closing. I don't have the tools to get in there to measure clearances, so it would be trial and error. But I think there's a better than 50% chance it will work, so I'm willing to try. Again, for $10, I think it's worth a shot.
     

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  3. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Here's a photo of the new passenger seat pan mounted in place. Notice the hole in the center, perfect for the fuel line to fit through.

    I still need to search for that perfect tank to mount there. A buddy of mine has a friend that does custom metal fabrication. But this project was to be completed with off-the-shelf parts. If he can make a good looking tank, do you think there would be enough interest for him to put it into production?
     

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  4. Series4

    Series4 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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  5. Billd

    Billd Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Ray you want to be very careful in the use of that blue fitting. It seals on the taper not the threads. If you cut it and use rubber washers with a metal back up that fitting may leak after time as the taper on the blue fitting and the brass fitting are not in contact . The interference of the two tapers is what keeps the fitting tight as well so over time they may loosen off. Suggest you go to a Russel catalouge , any good auto parts place will have one,and find a fitting more designed for the application.
     
  6. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Peter/Bill - Thanks for the suggestions. I had already checked all those websites, and others, and found nothing that fit the specific application I need. And, of course, no one has made an aux tank specifically for the Stelvio....yet. As for the fitting, I understand it is sealed on the taper, not the threads. It's why I'm using rubber washers. They'll compress so the tapered fitting can be tight.

    Right now, www.tourtank.com probably has the best package at the most reasonable price available that would work and offer the extra 4 gal I'm looking for. But I'm not sure I like the "keg" look of it mounted on the bike (no offense Ron).

    If I decide to go the custom fab route, the guys I'll be working with on the design are a metal fabricator and design engineer for Columbia Helicopters. They know their stuff, and are obviously concerned with safety.
     
  7. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    As for tapping into the system, all aux tank providers recommend against tapping into the existing fuel injection delivery system.

    The closer I examine trying to tap into the rubber neck, the more prohibitive it seems. There are too many obstacles in the way, and the area looks too small to hold the fittings. Plus, I worry a bit about the fittings perhaps (not likely, but you never know) tearing through the rubber.

    The only other alternative I see is to tap directly into the tank as Ron and Lee have done. Here's a photo of a location that seems to fit the bill. It's a few inches in front of the filler. Notice the markings already in the tank. It almost looks like a punch-out is already there, although it's too big for the fitting shown in the photo. This is certainly the easiest solution for sure, as long as you can drill the hole without dropping any plastic into the tank.

    The brass fitting, I believe, is 1/8" NPT thread with a barbed end to fit a 1/4" ID fuel line. I drilled a 3/8" hole into a test piece of plastic similar to the tank's construction, and screwed the fitting it. It fit VERY tight and secure. I think I've found my solution.
     

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  8. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The deed has been done. The tank has been tapped. That tank wall is much thicker than I thought it would be. I had my wife hold the shop vac while I drilled the hold. The fitting screwed in just like the test run. Nice and tight. Plugged the barbed end for the night and called it quits. I'll get some hose clamps tomorrow.
     

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  9. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I finished the main tank plumbing last night and have the fuel line run to the back of the bike. Today I bought the fuel pump. I bought the Facet posi-flo type from my local Napa store. It's $49 for the kit. It's rated to pump 32gal per hour, with a 12" lift. I'm replacing the 5/16" fittings and filter with 1/4". I'm going to mount it in the toolbox carrier under the passenger seat.

    Now I need to find some sort of switch mechanism. One with a 3 min timer would work great. Anyone have suggestions where to find such a switch? I used one that came with the underseat tank on my MegaMoto which works great. But that came from Germany, and didn't have any distinct manufacturer markings.

    Here's a photo of the Facet kit.
     

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  10. RokonRon

    RokonRon Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Ray,
    Sorry for the delay, yesterday was a busy day. Here's what I did to control the transfer pump. I bought a universal 12v timer board and mounted it under the seat.
    Here's a view of the timer board (left) and the pump (right). And here is the switch and pump 'on' indicator light. The indicator light is on when the pump is actually running, when it goes out I turn the switch off.
    Here's the only problem I have had with this set up, the timer board has two modes. It will time 0-60 seconds OR 0-60 minutes, the pot to adjust the time is pretty course in the 0-60 minute mode so it wont adjust very accurately at 3 minutes. It will set for about 1 minute or 3 1/2 minutes but nowhere in between. Right now I have it set on the 0-60 seconds mode and I have to trigger it for 60 second three times for each transfer cycle. I'm going to try replacing the pot to see if I can't make work at 3 minute with only one throw of the switch.
    Ron
     

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  11. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I found this unit at http://www.amperite.com. Their site says you can buy it customized for any delay from .1 sec to 1000 mins. Or you can add a potentiometer and have a variable adjustment. It's their ST2 line. I've got an email note into them asking for more info. It's epoxy sealed, and about 2"x 2"x .75" with a hole in the center for mounting.
     

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  12. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Here's a photo of the pump mounted under the passenger seat pan. It's all plumbed to the main tank. I still need to figure out a switch and finalize on a tank design. Ron - where did you get your timer?
     

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  13. RokonRon

    RokonRon Tuned and Synch'ed

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  14. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I went ahead and ordered the switch parts today. I'm getting the Amperite delay (part # 12D5MST2) and a booted toggle switch. Cost is about $38. It's a 5 minute delay. I'll mount the delay next to the fuel pump in the trunk, and mount the switch on the small right side panel below the seat. It looks like there are switched wires in that area I can tap.

    My engineer buddies and I began a mock-up for a tank that will mount on the seat pan. I'm looking to follow the lines of the bike as close as possible. So far, it's really pretty exciting. I think we have some great ideas, and I'm looking forward to sharing them here as we get something closer to reality. Right now, it looks like we could easily add 6-7 gallons without harming the lines of the bike. But I'll likely go for 4-5 making it easier to throw a leg over the bike while mounting and dismounting. It'll be made from aluminum, and then I'll get it either painted or coated. Perhaps a Line-X material or powder coating. Black to match the bike of course.

    The welder said he's be willing to make these for others if any of you are interested. I understand the final product will be the real decision maker. But what say you all? Any interest? You'd need to order your own seat pan from the dealer ($116), and fuel pump and switch. I suppose we could put together a complete package if there's enough interest. At this point, if I had to guess, the tank will likely run @ $300 or so. Or maybe we'll incorporate the mounts into the tank so the seat pan isn't necessary. We'll see. But the stock seat pan has some nice features like the plastic mounts so the mounting points don't get scratched up, and the rubber feet incorporated to distribute the weight. Just thinking out loud here....
     
  15. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Removed this post and added pics to next one......
     
  16. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    We've done a bit more since last week. Since this is a spare-time project, it's going to take a while. Attached are some more CAD photos of the tank. At this point, we're considering having the tank mount by itself, i.e., instead of using the seat pan.

    I've picked out a gas cap to use on the custom tank. It's JAZ part number 350-201-06. Wisco actually makes it, but it's sold under the JAZ name. There is a large variety of caps available. The prices run anywhere from @ $45 for a JEGS brand, to $300+ for a Newton brand locking cap. The Newton is a really nice looking unit, but the price is a bit prohibitive. The JAZ cap cost @ $80 with shipping. You can spend more than $600 for an actual aviation filler assembly. But again, why?

    I've also ordered a Dan-Marc 12 volt fuel shut-off valve. It will keep the fuel from gravity feeding from the aux tank to the main tank when the aux tank is full. The valve is closed with power removed. So I'll have the same switch that runs the timer and fuel pump running the solenoid on the valve. Again, the actual manufacturer is http://www.afcvalves.com, but it's sold by http://www.dan-marc.com. The part number is AFC11112. Cost is @ $25.

    I'll head to Oil Filter Services tomorrow for some other fittings. I need a shut-off valved quick-disconnect that will allow me to remove the tank when there's still fuel in it. And they should also have a good quality fuel filter available.

    At this point, I'm just waiting for all the parts to arrive, and the CAD design to complete so we can build a prototype. I'm also researching some sort of foam that I can put in the tank to prevent any sloshing that might disrupt the bike's handling. My only concern here is I've heard many of the foams available break down over time and clog parts due to the additives in today's gasolines. Any experience out there? I'm assuming if this were to happen, a good fuel filter will catch any debris before it gets to any vital parts, and the fuel filler opening will be large enough to allow the tank to be cleaned out in the event this does happen.
     

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  17. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I now have all the switch gear and plumbing in place. We're still working on the CAD and mock-up for the tank itself. But in the mean time, here's a photo of the pump, timer, shut-off valve, and fuel filter. All located in the toolbox. I may opt for a smaller fuel filter as this one takes up a lot of room.
     

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  18. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    And here's a photo of the power switch. I mounted it on the right hand side cover. It's sealed up from weather with a rubber boot over it. Per my other thread, I'm searching for a switched power source instead of straight to the battery as I'd rather not have anyone turning it on while it's parked somewhere unattended.
     

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  19. Ray R

    Ray R Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I found a good switched power source. Under the same right cover as pictured above lives the relay for the glove box. There are four wires there. Yellow, yellow/white, blue/white, and grey/black. The solid yellow wire is switched power. I tapped into it with a posi-tap, and it all seems to work as planned. The total draw for the pump and valve is about 2amps.

    So now all the plumbing and electronics are ready to go. We printed off the full scale CAD schematics last night, and I'll be cutting out the model and assembling it over the next few days. Stay tuned.
     
  20. Mike.C

    Mike.C GT Reference

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    Mate of mine uses THIS TANK FOAM HERE in his enduro race bikes, might be worth a try.

    Great project Ray.
     

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