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Battery Tenders - Yes/No and What size to get?

More is better. I've been using a 1.25 AMP charger/maintainer successfully for my MC's for many years I would opt for no less amperage to cover all uses of my MC as often they are long rides charging and sometimes short rides that require recovery with not a lot of time for the alternator to charge it up so the battery must be potent enough and have sufficient recovery capability. More qualified than I can talk to that, but Scott is on the right track as the chargers must cover all types of situations for all types of MC batteries. Kaladin can certainly explain it far more eloquently than I am sure.
 
I have been maintaining all my vehicles with 800mA PowerStream chargers for many years. This is a precise microprocessor controlled multistage charger, despite its low price. I had to change the battery in my R1150GS after spending 8 years of winters on this charger.
Welcome Kaladin. Do you own a Guzzi now?
This website is a feeder for our commercial side of things linked via the STORE tab at the top of the page, and as noted on the scrolling paragraphs there (that not many people bother reading, hope you have or will).
That said, its great having experts in their fields here. Since you know the charging side, are you up to speed with modern battery construction then? I’ve posted dozens of times the reasons I’ve learned as to why older batteries lasted far longer than new ones. Curious as to what you know.

We here at GTM are big supporters of OptiMate chargers, as all of the big lead acid and lithium companies support and recommend them as well. I have a workshop and home full of them, from the basic $39 version all the way up to 10A race support chargers and they have been stellar.
 
I’m glad you are:

a recognized expert in lead acid and other batteries, a paid consultant to electric car companies, and have 22 years experience in designing and testing chargers and batteries.


That’s commendable. I’m glad you are here. Welcome!

However, I don’t think you read carefully what I wrote and what I was attempting to convey. I believe that perhaps we are really talking about 2 different things and you don’t realize it.

I’m not a battery expert, but I assure you with 100 percent certainty, that I work with more motorcycle and Powersports batteries, of every type, make, size, fitment, and condition, than anybody here, yourself included, notwithstanding my fellow professional mechanics here. Not a boast but rather a statement of fact.

I own and operate in excess of 40 battery chargers in my workshop which are connected to about 25 or more motorcycles, quads, ATVs, UTVs and trikes, every single day.

There is engineering and there is real world conditions and I tell you with 100% certainty that I have never been able to successfully use a 750mA charger to resurrect an otherwise competent battery that has been totally or nearly totally discharged.

It has been my oft repeated experience as a seasoned end-user, that the logic circuits in the automatic chargers of that size, and those smaller than 4 Amps, make the charger incapable of determining the actual state of the battery, and then accurately begin and execute a charging cycle capable of bringing a motorcycle battery back to life.

I don’t base this upon calculations on a sheet of paper. I base this upon literally hundreds upon hundreds of real-world, sitting right in front of my face, experiences.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but not there own facts.

I suggest that until you try it, in real world conditions, like I do, every single day, you don’t have any independent empirical data to support your belief.

I agree in principle that if you can throw 750mA into a healthy battery, without any logic circuits being involved, so just a complete 750mA continuous uninterrupted output being sent into the receiving battery, then yes, that energy will be transferred into a otherwise healthy battery.

However, this is not how I have found these smart charger devices work. You should know why this is, as an expert and I would love to understand why it is like this.

I know you think you know better, and maybe you do, but consider perhaps, I humbly suggest you try this test.

Take 2 simple Yuasa brand, new lead acid batteries. Add the electrolyte. Hook the batteries up, 1 to a 750mA unit or your 800mA unit and 1 to a 4A or greater unit, and leave them overnight.

I guarantee you, you will return to the 750mA charger battery, no further down the road of charging than when you started. In fact, you will find it flashing codes at you that the battery is fully charged even though it is dead as a door nail, while the 4A (or larger) charger battery will be fully charged and ready to install and use.

I do not claim to know why. I just know that I have personally observed this phenomenon time and time again.

Another test is to take 2 AGM batteries. Discharge them nearly completely by leaving the headlights shining on a motorcycle. Then hook up the two different chargers to the 2 batteries and again, leave them on overnight.

Once again, I will 100 percent bet that the battery on the tiny charger, will be flashing it’s little heart out that the battery is fully charged, but it will not be any further than when you started, while the larger amperage charger charged battery will be ready to roll again.

I’ve done this also with Lithium batters too although only 2 or 3 times. Same results.

I’ve performed these exact tests at least a dozen times with various makes of chargers. My results are always the same.

I have serious coin invested in the number of battery chargers I own and operate in my shop. I wanted to know if what I was seeing was reproducible, and I found it to be so.

I respect your learned opinion and I’m very excited to read more of your posts in the future, but I stand absolutely solid in my resolve upon what I wrote. It’s my business and I do it every single day and my extensive real-world experience in this arena tells me so.

As I initially said, I really think we are talking apples and oranges as far as how the chargers are being used and what they can do with a dead or nearly dead battery, as opposed to just maintaining a charge on a BMW GS in a garage. 👌👍🙏

To each their own. 🙂

YMMV.
 
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To add to this discussion I just purchased what I think is the "Prize" of all battery chargers. It is the TopDon TB6000 Pro 6 amp charger and battery load tester all in one. Repairs and maintains with app on phone among other tests. AMPS can be pre set not to over charge and has a sm amp setting preloaded at 3 amps for Motorcycle/lawn mowers, etc.. You can customize also.
 

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this is a great thread! tell all yours friends!
I'm using a gooloo/amazon
 

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Welcome Kaladin. Do you own a Guzzi now?
This website is a feeder for our commercial side of things linked via the STORE tab at the top of the page, and as noted on the scrolling paragraphs there (that not many people bother reading, hope you have or will).
That said, its great having experts in their fields here. Since you know the charging side, are you up to speed with modern battery construction then? I’ve posted dozens of times the reasons I’ve learned as to why older batteries lasted far longer than new ones. Curious as to what you know.

We here at GTM are big supporters of OptiMate chargers, as all of the big lead acid and lithium companies support and recommend them as well. I have a workshop and home full of them, from the basic $39 version all the way up to 10A race support chargers and they have been stellar.
Yes, I bought a 2007 Norge for my birthday in September, so until my wife starts to complain I have the two bikes. I'm a long way from any dealer, so I have taken on maintenance myself. As far as why modern batteries don't last as long I don't have an answer, but some ideas.

Nowadays we have the options to run deep cycle SLAs or the traditional flooded. I have been running SLAs just because I stock them, and like the idea of being able to deep discharge without damage when I do something stupid.

One idea about new versus old, is that the old bikes used to draw no current when turned off. The flooded starting motor batteries are designed not to discharge more than a few percent, but have huge amperages available when needed. So running then down 20-30 percent by letting them sit will eventually degrade them.

Another issue is that battery companies have a financial incentive to lie their pants off. I have found this in my consulting work where the customer beat the price down to the point that it was no longer profitable to tell the truth. The easy way to tell if the new battery has a lying label is to weigh it. A 28AH battery will weigh more than a 25AH battery because it has more lead in it.
 
It's frustrating with batteries of late.. I have just bought a new 2022 Ford F150 lariat and it won't let the battery charge higher than 12.2 volts via the connected BMS (battery management system) even after the charger is removed. As i charge it up it reverts to 12.2 volts and often down to 11.8. But when I put a load tester on it it says it's fine? Not what I understand battery health should be - 12.9 -13.3 resting. FORD makes it tough on consumers.
 
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Interesting thread although a bit over my head from a tech standpoint. I've got a Noco Genius 2a tender and it seems to do well with my battery each season. However, this past winter I forgot to put the tender on and the battery was dead. I hooked it up to the 2A Noco and it couldn't detect a signal so I was able to "force charge" it. After a few days it was charged up but died the next day. Took to store, dead battery cell and they gave me a new battery under warranty. Activated it with acid, hooked up the 2A tender and it showed the battery was low and then charged it up over the course of a few days. All seems fine. However, based on the information in this thread, I wonder if a 4A tender would have been able to properly charge and perhaps save my dead battery? If I ever need a new tender, I'll buy a 4a for sure
 
I have the NOCO Genius 2x2 4 Amp unit and it is great. I keep both of the batteries on trickle over the winter and the bikes fire right up in the spring. Nice peace of mind.
 
I've used a NOCO Genius 10 charger for a few years. It's worked well for me, brought back a couple of dead Alfa Romeo batteries. It works on AGM, Lithium, what have you. Recently I bought one of the NOCO lithium batteries for my V7. Their products seem well thought out. Time will tell on the battery.
 
I've used a NOCO Genius 10 charger for a few years. It's worked well for me, brought back a couple of dead Alfa Romeo batteries. It works on AGM, Lithium, what have you. Recently I bought one of the NOCO lithium batteries for my V7. Their products seem well thought out. Time will tell on the battery.
I would love to hear how the NOCO Lithium works out for you. Were you able to get it to fit properly into the V7 using the extra sizing plates? If this AGM battery goes on me, I would like to try the NOCO Lithium as they are available in Canada via Amazon
 
I would love to hear how the NOCO Lithium works out for you. Were you able to get it to fit properly into the V7 using the extra sizing plates? If this AGM battery goes on me, I would like to try the NOCO Lithium as they are available in Canada via Amazon
The NOCO NLP 14 fit perfectly with one "booster". The terminals are the most versatile I've seen on an MC battery. Still, the test is how long it remains trouble free.
 
Interesting and informative thread but I also think there are different situations in which a person's decision should be based on need and use. In a shop environment like Scotts a 4A or perhaps even higher makes a lot of sense simply because of the volume of work a 'charger' would be faced with and the wide variety of battery conditions it would have to deal with. On the opther hand if your a one or two bike owner who seldom lets your bikes rest between rides like I do, AND who puts them on a battery 'maintainer' on day one a good quality battery maintainer from CTEK or Battery Tender is probably a good choice. These lower powered units are not going to recharge a dead or nearly dead battery no matter how long they're attached and that's where a 4A or larger unit might be the better option.

I have both and the Battery Tender 750mA unit that stays hooked to my Griso 1200 between every ride does the job of keeping that bike read to start at the touch of a button and has for 4+ years. My larger 15 A unit is for charging, recovering, maintaining, etc., the substantially larger 1000 CA battery in my '99 XK8 which spends more time sitting than driving and the occasional duty on my wife's Genesis 5.0.

There are different units for sifferent situations so I'd consider what you'd need in yours before spending good money on something too small or to big.
 
Hey, if things get really close to dead (charge wise) we could follow some entertaining ideas I watched
on "Project Farm" about welders for battery chargers :) . Peter
 
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