RentAGuzzi Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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Bike won’t start

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by dududuckling, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    When a bike is running and you are powering up the lights and all the accessories, is it still consuming power from the battery? Or is it like in a car where the alternator then goes to work when the car is switched on and not putting much load on the battery?
     
  2. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    The lights and everything else electrical (even the ignition / fuel injection system) use electricity while the engine is running. The alternator is charging the system at the same time. Normally, the alternator is putting out at least as much electricity as the various systems / components are using. But the alternator doesn't put much out at idle. If the bike is ridden short distances and / or never really rev'd up the various electrical systems can use the electricity faster than the alternator is putting it out. My Lario is especially weak in that respect.

    But the reality is that the battery and the electrical draws are all connected. While the engine is running electricity is being pulled from the battery while the alternator is putting electricity back into the battery. It is not two separate systems. Cars are the same way.
    Hopefully the system is in balance. It is easy to check. Put a volt meter on the battery while the engine is running. You should show over 14 volts, but not over 14.7 or so.
     
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  3. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Really interested to hear if the battery fixes your issue. I have the exact issue (minus the repeated clicking from the starter solenoid). One in every 10 or so starts I hit the starter button an the starter solenoid simply clicks once. I release the starter button, try again, and it usually fires right up. I too had O'Reilly's check my battery yesterday. Their stupid scan tool said "Bad battery" with no other info given. Took the battery to Batteries Plus and their tool said it had 12.6 volts and 210 CCA. In otherwords, a good battery.

    This morning I took the bike off the trickle charger, rolled it into the driveway, hit the starter button..."Click". No start. Tried it again and it fired right up. I'm just not seeing how this can be a battery issue. The battery is fully charged as it came right off the charger. There's enough current to the solenoid to pull it back into position to make the "click." If the battery were sketchy, wouldn't you get a slow crank and no fire? The fact that I only get a solenoid click and no crank, followed by a perfect crank and fire the next time I try it, screams starter/solenoid issue as opposed to bad battery.

    Will your bike eventually fire like mine does, if you try several times?
     
  4. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    FYI... T.O. is no longer a dealer.
     
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  5. Wisconsin v7 Racer

    Wisconsin v7 Racer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    My assumption is your battery is starting to fail. I'm dealing with that in my riding lawn mower right now. Fully charged it will spin it but if it's on the wrong stroke it will struggle. If it's still hooked up to battery tender and fully charged it helps. That battery is 2 years old and I've taken care if it. Mine in my bike failed earlier this year would charge and show full but zero cranking amps. Also had one on my truck do the same after 2 years. Junk batteries now days as Todd says.
     
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  6. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I'm still not 100% clear on how the battery will fail entirely to even budge the starter on one attempt, then kick it over just fine on the next. Regardless, it's the OEM battery that's now 6 years old and has 6k miles on it. It's had a good life. Probably time to move on just for the sake of maintenance! thanks for the insight.
     
  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    If you got 6 years out of the battery you have nothing to complain about. It is at end of life so just replace it.
     
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  8. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    LOL, indeed. Time to step it up to the Antigravity battery and see what the fuss is all about.
     
  9. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    It sounds a lot like the "Startus Interruptus" issue that the CARC bikes suffer.
    I don't know if this applies to your Guzzi, but with the CARC bikes, when you push the starter button you are merely "requesting" the bike to start. It is no longer the direct connection between the start button and the start system. After you request the start the system checks for voltage to make sure there is enough to attempt the start. If the voltage sensed is too low, it does not attempt the start. The CARC bikes have a flaw in their wiring (Guzzi engineers aren't known for their understanding of how electricity works), but the issue can also happen from a loose connection interfering with the computers ability to sense proper voltage. If the system does not sense enough voltage, the start is either not attempted or called off. That your description seems to indicate that the start attempt is called off I wonder if your issue is along these lines.
     
  10. avlis

    avlis Tuned and Synch'ed

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    My GF's Suzuki does this too.
     
  11. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    I'm convinced my OEM battery was defective from new at this point. It died on me at the beginning of Feb this year, only four months old, after failing more than once. Modeling the charge states, it was crappy even when it was working well.

    I replaced it with the Antigravity battery from Todd. The charging system now works exactly to spec on the meter, and starting performance is far better.

    It turned out, however, that over the Summer (from late June on) I put very few miles on Racer, and then I was gone for seven weeks traveling in other parts of the world while it just sat. I probably should have disconnected the battery. When I got back in October, the Antigravity battery was down to about 8.2V, static. Luckily, I'd invested in the fancy Optimate lithium battery charger, so I pulled the battery and set it up on the charger. I let the recovery charge, standard charge, and then test cycle run its course over about fifteen hours and all indicators came up green. The battery went back into Racer and it's been working fine ever since.

    It's pretty obvious to me that a) modern motorcycles with all these new electronics in them put a much greater load on the charging system and battery, b) the OEM batteries are undersized with very little reserve performance to handle it all, c) the lithium battery at the same size and lower weight does a better job, and d) some sensible maintenance is still required.

    I'm not an everyday rider like I once was, I actually ride my bicycle more than I drive my car or ride my motorcycle nowadays. (I try to keep putting 50-100 miles a week on the bike as a minimum to keep it in good nick, and the same for my car. I put about 120 miles a week on my bicycle... :)) That's where I am these days.

    G
     
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  12. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    Here is something to think on when buying a battery. The shop I worked at in N.GA had to replace under warranty a few batteries. The replacements also were going bad in these bikes. Not only on Guzzi's but Aprilia's too. We checked charging systems and shop chargers, nothing wrong. Came to the conclusion it had to be the supplier. Switched supplier and no more bad ones. Someone somewhere in the supply chain were tossing the batteries while loading or unloading trucks. None had damage to the boxes or batteries on the outside just loose a cell within a year. Just cause it's new doesn't mean it will last.
     
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  13. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Got the new ATX-12HD battery from Todd. Looking good and very well-packaged, I was impressed. Hopefully this fix the bike’s non-starting issue.

    If it starts, how long must I ride to charge the battery before storing it till the next day? Planning to go to a gas station first

    Thanks.
     

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  14. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    If you are worried about the charge, do it before you install it. You could look up how long it takes on a trickle charger and ride that amount of time. No restarting & such, just riding. No heated gear or junk that will suck juice from it, just riding. Continuously riding. I never just let the bike charge it at the beginning.
     
  15. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The bike started right up!
     
  16. Wisconsin v7 Racer

    Wisconsin v7 Racer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    It came with a user guide.
     
  17. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Bringing up an old thread... so the bike has been fine for the past three months, the new battery from Todd has solved the problem.

    But I have another starting-related question. When I start the bike:

    1. Switch key to ON, all the dash light and headlight light up fine
    2. Kickstand goes up
    3. Squeeze the clutch lever touching the handle bar
    4. Red safety switch goes live
    5. Press starter button and... one mississippi... nothing... two mississippi... turns and cranks like normal... vroom vroom

    Is that normal? Used to be I hit the start button and engine goes live right away. I tried it three times in a row and it does that every single time.

    I have replaced with the all-metal fuel filter. No weak accelleration or stalling once it starts. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  18. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    The delay in turning over is an electrical issue. Check the schematic for your bike. I'm thinking a relay is not energizing as it should. Possibly the solenoid isn't engaging properly.
     
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  19. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Yesterday and today, the bike starts okay. So I'm hoping it was just a one time glitch.

    This morning, I had the clutch lever in and slowly kick the bike in reverse to get out of the driveway while hitting the start button. It started and died. I guess I can't have rolling backward start eh? Other than that, the bike starts okay now.
     
  20. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Ride it and enjoy it, nut'n to worry about. Zoom zoom!!

    Paul
     
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