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Bike won't start, DSB07 & DSB08

Discussion in 'Griso-Bella Chat & Tech' started by ipo, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. ipo

    ipo Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Hi everyone,

    I changed the engine oil 7 days ago once I reached the end of the running-in period. I've been checking the level at least twice a day since then. Everything seems to have been ok. No leaks, warning lights, or other warnings. Today I rode the bike for 15Km before my first stop at the dealership.

    Once I turned it back on after 20 minutes of rest and started to roll in first gear the engine died on me. I tried to re-start the bike to no avail. So far the mechanic and I found the following:

    1. The ignition sequence seems normal (e.g. all lights briefly turning on and then off again).
    2. The red warning light for the oil pressure does not stay on.
    3. The only visible warning on the LCD is the wrench reminder (I did not reset it after the oil change).
    4. Error codes DSB 07 and DSB 08 are being reported by the console.
    5. The spark plugs work fine.
    6. Forcing combustible mixture via the intake makes the engine run ok unti it starves.

    From previous posts I understand that some of you have experienced faulty oil sensors. I know this may be the case for my bike but what I find frightening is that the engine won't turn. Any suggestions?

    Thanks all
    ipo
     
  2. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    ipo
    Since you seem to be finding your way through the Mode options, I suggest you go to the Diagnostic section and do a Delete Dashboard Errors, and then do the Delete Service Icon. If the engine is started after an oilchange without the Service Icon being deleted it seems to upset the ECU, as if it doesn't know the engine now has oil and has been serviced. Call out if you have problems.
     
  3. swagzz

    swagzz Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Graham is on the right track
    DSB 07 is Oil Sensor failure
    DSB 08 is oil pressure anomaly
    so clearing the sensor codes and
    disconnecting the battery to reset
    the system might help also.
    swagzz
     
  4. ipo

    ipo Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Unfortunately I don't have access to the codes. The MG mechanic allowed me into the shop to show me and the bike is now sitting there. I understand that resetting the codes and reseting the battery might help but what does not seem to make much sense is that I've been able to ride all week after the oil change without a glitch.

    Please don't take it wrong as I take your advice seriously and I plan to pursue along the lines you've indicated but I also wonder if the problem may actually be totally unrelated. My reasoning is this: When I changed the oil and I turned on the bike for the first time the error codes might have been raised because of no initial pressure. As I rode the bike and the oil found its way around the engine, the oil pressure went back to normal but the codes were memorized and that's why they're still showing a week later.

    Now, the fact that the engine began to run when the mechanic forced the combustible mixture through the intake, wouldn't that point to a failure in the delivery of gas? My other question is, if the oil is in fact the culprit, would the bike in fact refuse to start to avoid damage to the engine, perhaps as a safety feature of the motorcycle?
     
  5. draidt

    draidt GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Fuel line came off the pump in the fuel tank ? Take fuel cap off, turn on the bike as if to start, do you see gas swirling around in the tank ?
     
  6. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    ipo

    Before thinking the worse, why not try the easy things suggested first?

    Clear the dashboard errors.
    Reset the service icon.
    Disconnect the battery, clean and lube the terminals and re-connect.
    Check for fuel pump operation as draidt suggests.

    There are many reports of the ECU doing strange things when something confuses it, and which a battery disconnection has cured.

    Then again it could be fuel pump failure, oil pump failure or even a battery charging failure, but always a good idea to check the simple and obvious things first. These bikes don't like low battery Voltage either.
     
  7. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    The oil pressure dashboard error issues are almost certainly a result of the oil and filter change. Even if you fill the filter with oil before installation you will quite often get an error thrown up after a change. That won't stop the bike running.

    My guess is that Dan has got this nailed. I didn't even think of it but it is the most likely and plausible explanation.

    Checking the line is a 15 minute job anyway so ruling it out and/or checking the line is clamped tight is worth doing anyeway.

    Pete
     
  8. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    You say the ignition sequence is normal, eg the lights go on and off. But you don't mention wheter you can hear the fuel pump running for that 10 or 20 seconds which it should, prior to actually hitting the button.
     
  9. klaas123

    klaas123 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Unrelated to your problem (clearly a fuel problem):

    You can fill your oil filter with fresh oil prior to mounting it to your Guzzi thus preventing a drop in oil pressure.
    Your engine will like it better that way :)
     
  10. speedcraft

    speedcraft Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Sure sounds like what mine did.....with no warning at nid-ohio last year....when a hose blew off the fuel pump.

    Look in the tank, when you turn on the key....I had a nice water fountian effect.

    It took 15 minutes and a few hose clamps to fix.
     
  11. ipo

    ipo Tuned and Synch'ed

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    GrahamNZ, the mechanic reset all the codes but it didn't seem to help. He was going to do additional diagnostics but hasn't come back to me yet. I won't have the bike for a couple of days as I asked him to proceed with the Griso recall for the missing washers in the gearbox but I'll keep everyone posted as I learn more about it. Thanks all in the meantime.
     
  12. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    Errr? Hang on? is your bike making a horrid noise? If not why is anything being done to it? The gearbox noise issue was only something that needed to be addressed IF it was evident and it wasn't a recall.

    Also you seem to be ignoring the whole fuel line issue which is a simple 15 minute fix. Do you *want* there to be something seriously wrong with your bike???

    Pete
     
  13. Kid Thunder

    Kid Thunder Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Pete,
    What "Horrid noise" is that?
    Mine clunks a lot at low speeds with the clutch part way out.
    Also I seem to notice it at very speeds when going over a bump I think.
    Don-M
     
  14. ipo

    ipo Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Are we getting our names mixed up? The clunking noise I am talking about is an issue that I raised several weeks ago; it turns out that Moto Guzzi issued a bulletin stating that there were a couple of washers missing in the gearshaft but that there was no danger of mechanical malfunction, just annoying noise to some individuals. The bulletin was posted in this forum some time ago and if you'd like to read it I'll try to locate it for you.

    To answer your question I, of course, do not want anything to be seriously wrong with my bike. It's a busy time for the dealer so I'm taking advantage of the fact that he offered to address the noise issue over a couple of days given the number of hours required to take care of it. So by the time I get the bike I will have killed 2 birds with one stone and I won't have to bring it in at the end of the riding season as the dealer originally advised.
     
  15. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    OK, sorry, I must of missed that although I do seem to remember responding to a post on the subject a while back. The face-cam spring fix is a fairly major job as it requires the box to come out and be split. This is MUCH easier if you do it with the separator tool but it's possible to do it without.

    No need to re-post the tech bulletin, I'm a service agent and can read any of 'em any time I want, tot that they are often very helpfull! :laugh:

    Pete
     
  16. jgood

    jgood Just got it firing!

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    I had the fuel pump problem. Look in the tank and turn on the ignition . If you see the swirling gas it is the hose on the fuel pump that has come off. The bike will not run if that hose is disconnected. I also had the "DSB 07" and "DSB 08" readings and the bike ran irratically. I wiggled the oil pressure sensor wiring on the Left side of the engine block. With the bike on the side stand. Take a flash light and look above and beyond the left exhaust pipe where it exits the finned cylinder housing. You will see the oil pressure sensor . It has a black rubber boot on the top of the sensor. It looks almost like a "mini spark plug boot" The hex part of the sensor has a brass color to it.Use the eraser end of a #2 pencil to push the rubber boot firmly on the top of the sensor. Wiggle it to make sure the boot is firmly attached to the top of the sensor. I took the side cover off and lifted the gas tank to do this ,but you could ,buy using the pencil and a flashlight, avoid such disassembly. I then cleared the code from the ecu and the dash cluster and the bike has run great since. I believe that an intermitent contact of the oil pressure sensor was causing the problem. Also wiggle the blue plastic sensor on the right side of the engine. that ,I believe, is a temperature sensor. Try the simple stuff first then have the dealer dig in to the machine. If I could have lifted the covers off the sensors I would have sprayed the contacts with an electrical contact cleaner, but it was not necessary. Ride safe.
     
  17. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    On the Norge, one can start the engine despite the DSB07 and 08 errors and the red light if one presses and holds the starter button immediately after switching on the ignition (i.e. not waiting for the lightshow to end). I don't know if this works on the Griso, but it's worth a try. BTW, you did check your oil level, right?
     
  18. timbradley1

    timbradley1 Just got it firing!

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    Like several others, I almost guarantee it is the fuel hose in the tank. Has happened to me twice. First time dealer repaired under warranty. Second time I did it myself (better/tighter clamp) just to be sure it wouldn't happen a third time.
     
  19. timbradley1

    timbradley1 Just got it firing!

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    ...Oh, and the errors are just a result (I'm pretty sure) of you trying to start it 100 times without reaching full oil pressure of a running engine.
     
  20. ipo

    ipo Tuned and Synch'ed

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    You were right on! I picked up the bike today and, sure enough, the fuel hose had come off. It was also repaired under warranty but I'll take a look at it this weekend so that I can do it myself next time it happens. Thank you very much to all.

    ipo
     

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