California 1100 yawing problem

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Hello, I need a help.
Does anyone know how to solve the yawing problem of VIntage? California Vintage starts yawing at 150km/h and keeps till the top speed around 180km/h. This problem happened to my California Stone 2003 too. And I know some other California 1100 does too. I have solved it by changing the front tire to Pirelli Sports Demon but Vintage keeps yawing even with Sports Demon. I have tried almost all tires that can fit my Stone and Sports Demon was the only one that stopped yawing and runs much better than others but for Vintage. I would like to receive answers from guys who have experienced this yawing problem. This probem seems being raleted to the later California 1100 models that have the long oval swing arm and 45mm front fork. Rebound damping of rear suspension should be the solution? I guess not... it happens even on a flat straight road but still can be a solution...

Best Regards,
Andy

 

[kiwi dave]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

All right, I'll bite. What is yowing? High speed weave?

 

[Penis Rotor]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

If my bike started Yowing I'd put a bullet through the case. That would shut it up!

No, more and better explanation please.

Pete

 

[GuzziHero]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

I think he means yawing. Basically, the entire bike weaving left and right under him.

I get this at between 90 and 100mph. I thought it was my barndoor screen causing it, but even with it off, the bike does the same.

I's a long wheelbase bike. They arent supersports machines

 

[john zibell]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

I'd get a little head shake if I hit a bump leaned over, but no yawing on the Californias I've owned. I ran Bridgestone BT-45s on them with good results. To check the yawing, make sure the steering hear bearings are greased and adjusted correctly, the fork oil in each leg is equal, and the fork spring free lengths are equal. I ran into this problem with a Quota. The fork springs were 10mm different. I got a new spring, and installed with the spring I had that was the same length, yawing gone.

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

Ooops, "Yawing" in other word "high speed weaving". Front wheel swings left and right very quickly and strongly. Can't stop by holding grips tight. It gets stronger when braking. Does the long wheel base cause it? When I stopped next to Harley Fatboy, wow, my Stone's wheel base looked longer! I do sports with it. This problem has been wiped off by putting Sports Demon to my Stone but Vintage keeps swinging. Does Harley weave at high speed like 100miles/h?

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Re: California 1100 yowing problem

I'd get a little head shake if I hit a bump leaned over, but no yawing on the Californias I've owned. I ran Bridgestone BT-45s on them with good results. To check the yawing, make sure the steering hear bearings are greased and adjusted correctly, the fork oil in each leg is equal, and the fork spring free lengths are equal. I ran into this problem with a Quota. The fork springs were 10mm different. I got a new spring, and installed with the spring I had that was the same length, yawing gone.

Thanks John, I have met 3 Californias that yaws from 160km/h. 1st is mine, 2nd is other one's Stone, and 2009 new Vintage. It's hard to believe that all 3 Californias had unbalanced springs. For me, it's like all Californias have same problem. I have a picture of my front fork springs. I took this picture when I changed the fork oil. As I remember... it had same length. I have tried BT45 and did yawing. And the bearing would be fine for new Vintage. Oil level can be considerable. Did you go fast like 120mph on your California? Thanks alot.

 

[john zibell]

I had all California up to about 120mph or so with no problems. A 1993 Cal III, a 1998 EV and a 2003 EV. My 1998 was the most stable of the group after I replaced the frame and front fork assembly, long story, won't go into it here.

Something else to check would be the spring and damping rate of the rear shocks. If you are running stock, that could be a problem. One of the first thinks I did with my 1998 and 2003 was upgrade the shocks. The 1993 came with good shocks, Koni 7610s.

 

[GuzziHero]

I dont get head shake as Andy suggests. I get the entire bike snaking!

I think I need a new rear tyre though.

 

[double.d]

Tyre, steering head bearings or suspension, or a combination of all would be my guess :ugeek:

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Tyre, steering head bearings or suspension, or a combination of all would be my guess :ugeek:

Thanks, but is it natural to see 4 Californias, include Guzzihero's one, doing that? Even the new Vintage from a main official dealer? It's like Guzzi delivered this model regurated under 100mph, in other words they didn't check it in high speed... I think it is strange to depend on tyres or caring some other stuff so much. They are not broken or old... Thanks John, 2003 EV with Koni had no problem... sorry, I still wonder...

 

[john zibell]

Tyre, steering head bearings or suspension, or a combination of all would be my guess :ugeek:

Thanks, but is it natural to see 4 Californias, include Guzzihero's one, doing that? Even the new Vintage from a main official dealer? It's like Guzzi delivered this model regurated under 100mph, in other words they didn't check it in high speed... I think it is strange to depend on tyres or caring some other stuff so much. They are not broken or old... Thanks John, 2003 EV with Koni had no problem... sorry, I still wonder...

Andy, The 1993 with the Koni, had no problem. The 1998 and 2003 had no problem after installing Works shocks.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've not had the first sign of anything like that on any Guzzi I've ever owned. Do you have a trunk??

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

I've not had the first sign of anything like that on any Guzzi I've ever owned. Do you have a trunk??

No, it happened even when the side cases were off and Vintage is as an unit with cases... as Johnzibel says, it seems rear suspension causing this matter... but mine and one other Stone kept yawing even they had YSS Z302... only solution was changing tyres but Vintage. Koni or Ikon is the solution?

Chuck, does your California have normal shocks? What year model?

 

[kiwi dave]

I concur with John regarding the BT45's; I like 'em too.

What I have found that if the rear tyre is too large, it can contribute to this effect. Learnt this many years ago with Triumph Bonnevilles that would shake their heads on bumpy roads.

The worst IMHO seems to be the EV Touring with its 150/90 rear tyre. I replace mine with a 140/80 tyre (BT45) and find the stability is improved. This is without screen or panniers which also can have an influence.

Worn wheel bearings are another source of instability, as are worn rear shocks. I haven't had to replace steering head bearings, but accept this could also be a reason.

There will always be some issues on a bike that is ridden with a sit up and beg riding position. Not advisable for high speed riding.

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Thanks all guys for following my endless question. Then original choice of Metzler Lazertec and default shock absober was the uncomleted part of this cruiser? Mine and one other Stone had used BT45 but they both yawed. They both had 140/80 rear. Now my Stone is changed to rear 150/70 (pirelli diablo strada), front 110/90 (pirelli sports demon) and does not yaw at all even at 120mph.

Guzzi is known as a high speed cruiser and new people purchase Vintage to experience it. I raised this topic because one of new comer to the guzzi world, beckoned by beautiful Vintage, disappointed of this problem. He had given up Suzuki Intruder 1400 by yawing problem and he is very sad that this historical motorcycle Guzzi California also had same problem. He is going to give up Vintage if this thing was not cleared soon. He says, by this problem, this machine is slower than Harley Davidson. Harley takes over him on the highway. Now his machine is in the dealer to show mechanics how it yaws.

Yea, Kiwidave, it is a rear heavy motorcycle with a sit up position. But thanks to its engine feeling, Vintage easily goes fast over 100mph. I really want to know the exact reason why some number of not old Californias yaw... not enough mileage to worry about the bearings... not sure about the mileage but they all, include Vintage, are not old.

A responce from the guy experienced and cleared this thing on California Vintage would end this topic... I think big wind shield does not matter so much about this... sorry if this is too much for you guys...

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

Andy, The 1993 with the Koni, had no problem. The 1998 and 2003 had no problem after installing Works shocks.

Thanks, 2003 after installing Works shocks. http://www.worksperformance.com/
So you mean rear shocks are the exact solution... maybe adding more and more damping on rear would hold it down. I will check it.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've not had the first sign of anything like that on any Guzzi I've ever owned. Do you have a trunk??

No, it happened even when the side cases were off and Vintage is as an unit with cases... as Johnzibel says, it seems rear suspension causing this matter... but mine and one other Stone kept yawing even they had YSS Z302... only solution was changing tyres but Vintage. Koni or Ikon is the solution?

Chuck, does your California have normal shocks? What year model?

I had a Jack-All.. that I rescued from a wrecking yard. I rode it for 20K miles before I made a hack tractor out of it. Stock rear shocks, big fairing and no bags. *many* trips at 90 mph, that was it's sweet spot. Never a hint of instability..

 

[GuzziHero]

i have Hagon rear shocks if that helps at all, though I suspect the top mount rubbers are shot.

Should I harden the suspension to prevent the weaving?

 

[AndyOyamadaZ]

i have Hagon rear shocks if that helps at all, though I suspect the top mount rubbers are shot.

Should I harden the suspension to prevent the weaving?

Hi GuzziHero, Yes please see how it works. But don't get an accident by speeding! It will be a good news to hear solving this not by tyres but dampers.