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CARC Reaction Rod

Discussion in 'CARC' started by organfixsing, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. organfixsing

    organfixsing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I read somewhere on these forums that the clunck of the transmission can be improved by replacing the bushing in the reaction rod (at the swing arm pivot end) with a Stelvio one. I didn't have a Stelvio but went ahead and pushed it out. To my surprise the bush was nothing like the Silentbloc I expected but was as the photo shows. The whitish bit is a white dense foam cushioning ring. The one seen may be reasonable but the missing one came in a thousand pieces. The centre part is a GE12FW (Maker Chinese CCVI) and is a spherical plain bearing. The purpose of this bush appears to be to allow a small amount of horizontal twist of the reaction rod and the rubber rings are to seal the bearing and provide a buffer of the rod twists too far.
    Thanks to 'draidt', I have ordered a Silentbloc bush from a 1200 Sport part no. 883045 so I shall report further when this part arrives from the USA to Oz.
    It may not be clear from the photo, but the GE12FW is the centre part only. MG have pressed in two flanged sleeves from either side and reduced the diameter from 12mm of the GE12FW bearing to 10mm.
    Cheers
    Brian :) :)
     

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  2. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    I rang Tommy yesterday to order the same bush and he told me there is another bush at the diff end as well, so I ordered both. A Breva 1100 owner ordered same.

    This means I now have to design by own polished stainless steel torque arm, only because I have OCMD
     
  3. organfixsing

    organfixsing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    G'day ghezzi
    Yes the bush appears to be the same at the CARC end. I haven't pulled it out yet. I reckoned I had done enough 'damage' at that point and had to re-assemble the bush using slices of Holden heater bypass hose, purely as a buffer. This does not seal the spherical bearing but I reckon it will be OK untill I get the Silentbloc. The use of the spherical bearing does not make much sense to me and apparently someone at Guzzi woke up to that in using Silentbloc bushes instead.

    Cheers
    Brian
     
  4. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Had to pay $20 to get the old bush pushed out and new one pushed in.
    The gap down the centre of the torque rod and around the bush needs to be supported (wedged) other wise the two halves will crush together. Test ride 6am tomorrow.

    Looks like the diff housing will have to be removed to press the old bush out of the crown wheel/arm.
    Another day .................................. maybe.
     
  5. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    Very happy to report the low speed low rpm shifting is back to it's original "snick". I recently changed gear/tranny oils in the hope things would get smoother, but to no avail.

    Started to wonder if I was becoming an uncoordinated doddery ol' fart, happy to know I haven't reached that stage.............. yet.
     
  6. organfixsing

    organfixsing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    G'day ghezzi
    When I removed my bush / bearing, there was a tube it fitted into, 26mm internal diameter, which appeared to be fixed in place by some means. Perhaps you removed too much?

    Cheers
    Brian :?
     
  7. ghezzi

    ghezzi High Miler GT Contributor

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    The bush I removed was 30mm dia. including its outer sleeve. The internals are exactly the same as the one pictured above. It is a multi piece unit that as you can see, can be disassembled.

    Refer this thread to see the new replacement part prior to removal of old bush.
    https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/163/12017?p=89249#p89249
    The new bush incorporates two metal tubes bonded together by either a rubber or polyurethane membrane, which is the shock absorbing component.
     
  8. iainw

    iainw Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The silent block is 30mm and the noisy thing sits in a tube which is also just a push fit. Both bits need to come out, it's easy enough, I did it with a vice, sockets, bits of metal to stop the arm crushing together and other odds and sods I had lying around.



    I have only change the frame end of the rod, the CARC end looks like it doesn't have the tube so the p/n 883045 will not fit. If there is a silent block for that end then it will be of a smaller diameter.


    Iain
     

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  9. organfixsing

    organfixsing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Well I tried removing the frame end 30mm fitting a while ago but could not shift it using a bench vice. Abandoned the attempt.
    Some months later I had a brainwave that if I heated the end with a hot air gun, the hole in the reaction rod would expand as the hole is a lot larger than surrounding metal.
    The next problem was to press the original fitting out with the Silentbloc, but, only pressing with the outside shell of the Silentbloc.
    This was solved by using a 1/2" washer from the hardware store and grinding it's diameter down to slightly less than 30mm, (Not that easy but doable.)
    The internal bearing was pressed in a little way so that the centre sleeve of the Silentbloc did not do any of the pushing.
    My vice opening was a bit limited and so the first half of the pressout was done into a piece of 19mm chipboard with a 35mm hole in it to receive the old bearing.
    The end was then heated somewhat and pressing commenced. (A 1/2" washer is approximately the correct thickness to stop the two halves compressing.)
    I pressed the Silentbloc in about halfway and then stopped to find a new receiver for the old bush, I think I had a 36mm socket but a second piece of 19mm chipboard would have done OK.
    I had to reheat the reaction rod end again to get things moving again. Job complete!!!
    The improvement in slow speed running and On / Off throttle is considerably smoother.

    As a further comment, I find that the low speed snatchiness is largely eliminated and I can, without fear, change up a gear mid slow speed corner (not that I entirely recommend that).

    The difference around town is amazing. :shock: I would really reccommed it to any BREVA 1100 owners. The part # for the Silentboc is:- 883045 as fitted to the STELVIO.

    The other end of the Reaction Rod (CARC end) has the same spherical bearing as was fitted to the frame end, however it is pressed into the CARC. I have not been able to find a suitable Silentbloc for that end. It would be a case of pulling the CARC off the bike, not a thing to be taken lightly. :D :
    Cheers
    Brian :D :D :D :D
     
  10. selbatsd

    selbatsd Just got it firing!

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    Did mine today. Used 15mm & 32mm sockets in a vice, to press out the centre bearing and a 20mm to press out the outer sleeve and press in the new Silent Bloc.
    It went remarkably easy and I didn't have to use any heat. I utilised a piece of 22mm thick aluminium to hold the top 2 halves of the Reaction Rod apart while pressing the bearings out and in.
    Haven't had a chance to try the bike yet as the weather has just closed in, typical!
     
  11. Fiat500

    Fiat500 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I just purchased a Silent block for my 2V 1200 sport and after removing the reaction arm I checked that the bush would fit into the frame and found it did not.
    Have checked the O/A length of the silent block and found it was 30mm compared to 29mm for the old spherical bearing.
    No problem to alter but has anyone else noticed this ?
     
  12. Fiat500

    Fiat500 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Fitted reaction arm with new silent block bush and can confirm that it made a big difference to the feel and sound of the transmission around town.
    Very happy and well worth the small price and effort.
     
  13. JAS

    JAS Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Fiat500, just to confirm, the 883045 Silentblock is 30mm long, when the old bearing is 29mm long for the 1200 Sport? The diameter is the same? I assume you just ground then ends down with a bench grinder until the total length was 29mm?

    I have a 1200 Sport (2v) and am considering the mod.

    Thanks
     
  14. Fiat500

    Fiat500 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    That is correct, diameter is 30mm but it needs to be 29mm long for the 2V Sport.

    I just machined a small piece of round bar in the lathe to just over 10mm diameter so it was a light tap fit and then faced off the centre bush to 29mm.
    Measure your Silent block first before you face it as I also found that the centre bush had a 1mm offset to the outer so facing one end only trued it up.

    It would be better to find someone with a small home lathe or a Machine shop to do it properly as I doubt you could grind ends square and I have seen the results of the reaction arm to frame bolt coming loose and it is not pretty.
    For your information both reaction arm bolts are 50Nm.
    Cheers.
     
  15. JAS

    JAS Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks for the information.

    I do have one further question, what did you use the round bar machined to just over 10mm for? Was this need to mount the Silentblock so you could machine the face of the bush down to a 29mm length? I am assuming you did this as you did not want to subject the rubber insert of the bush to stress whilst machining the inner bush?

    If only the outer bush need machining, I would imagine you could mount the Silentblock directly in the lathe chuck?

    I have access to a lathe, so I can machine it myself (assuming it is just made of mild steel).
     
  16. Fiat500

    Fiat500 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Exactly right.

    Just machine a bit of round bar for say 20mm so that its a neat fit into the centre bush and then very slightly taper out the next few millimeters so you can tap the bush on to drive it for facing.
    This way you know ends will be faced true to the bore.
    Metal is soft so you will have no problems machining it.

    Don,t forget to neatly fit something flat into the gap of the reaction arm around where the bearing is housed to support it when you press the old bearing and sleeve out and the silent block in.
     
  17. JAS

    JAS Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks Fiat500.

    Now I will just have to wait until I need a few parts and put together a bulk order, the postage to Australia is pretty steep for a single part....
     
  18. Nordicnorm

    Nordicnorm Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    A big thank you to all who contributed to this thread, and the link to a previous post.
    Did mine last night. Most of the two hours was spent making up a puller to pull out the old and pull in the new. Easy peasy.
    Rode around the city this morning. What an incredible transformation! Is this the same Breva??
    Another piece in the puzzle of perfection.......
     
  19. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Did mine last night and only took about a 1/2 hour.

    Tools needed; 6" vice, 22 mm socket (or some other socket that fits the outside ring of the old block), 1x piece of wood, 11/2" hole saw, washers or some sort of wedge to fit between split of reaction rod, large slot screwdriver.

    Steps;

    1. drill a large hole in the wood to receive the old bushing.
    2. place 1x with hole, reaction bar and socket (stacked so it bears against outer ring of bushing).
    3. place washer/wedge (not exact fit) in split rod next to bushing to keep opening from closing
    3. press out old block (with aid of 1" cheater closed end wrench because the short rods of vice to not give enough leverage for these old hands.
    4. press in new block with use of cheater wrench.
    5. remove washer/wedge from rod and expand space to proper width with slot screwdriver.

    Now as soon as I get my new swing arm bearing seals the Griso will be reassembled and good for another 50,000 miles.

    Mark
     
  20. Nick McBride

    Nick McBride Just got it firing!

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    Hi All,
    Embarrassed to admit I had not read this thread and misunderstood a friends instructions and half removed the carc end bush/swivel bearing with a gear puller before realising I only had the replacement for the frame end.

    I got enough of it pushed through for some disintegrating yellow material to fall out (??neoprene washer/seals??) It can be clearly seen in ianw's pics above.

    I've put it back where it was and after completing sorting out the front the whole thing feels a bit better but still more movement than my mate's breva. Will be doing a test run in the morning but I'm concerned the rear bush now needs doing especially after the material that was probably meant to keep water out has fallen out in small bits on the garage floor....

    Has anyone had any experience with this or know the part number to replace that end with a similar "silentbloc".
    The parts manual was not much help (see screenshot)...makes no mention of the sleeve and parts 6,7,8 and 9 are the equivalent of what comes out of the front end (which are not described in the parts manual at all for the frame end of the reaction rod...see 2nd screenshot).
    Any input appreciated.
    Thanks

    Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 6.31.49 pm.png

    Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 6.37.58 pm.png
     

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