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Clam-Pack Battery packs (formerly CARBON SPEED)

Mike.C said:
I have been wondering why these types of batteries are not so common as an aftermarket addon, are we missing something?
Click to expand...
New product partially, but above all price at the moment I would think.
Add to that the fact that they are vulnerable to being totalled by discharging them a little too much, and you could end up doubling the cost.
Now I admit I haven't dealt with these batteries. But when the capacity is specified at say 7.5AH, at what discharge rate is that? Battery capacity has always been in AH, but the rate is also normally specified, ie. at a 10 hour or 20 hour rate. The capacity is not normally linear, the higher the discharge current, the smaller the capacity.

I have an Oddysey AGM battery on the SPIII. This has a mechanical electric clock which takes about 20ma constantly. If I leave that battery connected to the bike for more than 3 weeks, I can't start it. Leave it disconnected for several months and there is no problem. The Oddysey is 18AH, so how long would a 5AH one last?
The original Yuasa on the Norge has to be recharged within the month too, or I get a no start situation, though I haven't tried leaving that disconnected to check how it fares under those circumstances. No alarm fitted either.
Small discharge currents do add up considerably over time, certainly an alarm will equal that clock, and don't forget that the alarm will not be disconnected by the ECU if the battery volts drop. The ECU will prevent starting, but the damage to the battery may already be done.

But at the end of the day, as we say here, "You pays your money and you makes your choice".

I just feel that it should be a fully informed choice.
 
BrianUK,
the amp side of my volt meter seems to be toast, cause i always get 0 amps when i try measuring current. I imagine that 20 mah is a little high for our modern bikes which have a digital clock, and a little blinky LED which flickers every 5-6 seconds or so, which looks like an alarm. If you are drawing 20 mah, i'd suggest the bigger battery just for protection.

AGM batteries discharge themselves at about 12% per month, if the battery is in good condition. So if your SP3 takes 3 weeks to discharge your 18ah battery with a 12% self discharge rate (giving you a capacity of about 16ah over that period of time) then the 12 cell pack will give you about half of that. For such a high rate of discharge, i wouldnt use an 8c pack unless you dont mind disconnecting it when you store it.

Actually, that's a little pessimistic. AGM batteries drop their voltage much quicker than LiFePs do under discharge. a 12v AGM battery at rest after charge drops at a steady curve, from about 13.5v at rest to about 11, if the battery is in GOOD condition. LiFePs have a fraction of a volt peak, and then they only drop about a half a volt all the way until the last 10% or so when the voltage drops more drastically. So you should be able to start these batteries in a lower state of charge than the AGMs.

I can put any number of cells in a pack you want. Im all sold out of the first run, and pricing on round II (or the availability of round 2) is not certain.

For super low impedance cells like these, you should be able to extract the full amp rating of these batteries at 1c discharge or more.

As i said several times before, i know that the bike's electronic drains will drop the battery below the safe voltage if left unattended. That's why i have said, the only catch is, they arent invincible. They require a little more attention. It's that simple. If you want something you can plug in and forget about for months on end, you have no choice but to carry around a lot of extra weight. If you want to leave it plugged into your bike for that long anyway, you should have it on a tender, like you would even if you werent using these batteries.
 
Well guys, the results are in.

The cells do NOT deliver to their advertised specfications, and will not start our bikes. According to the spec sheet, the voltage should remain well high enough through the start so as to prevent the ECU from disabling the bike. Tests show, however, that the voltages drop far more and far faster under load.

I tried two different configurations, (3 cells in parallel, x4 in series, as well as 4 cells series, 3x paralell) just to make sure the tabs werent the weak spot, but no luck.

These are sufficient to keep the bike running, however, as i was able to jump it and it kept running, and the voltages stayed healthy.

I will be contacting the supplier tomorrow and requesting a full refund for the unused cells, but im still out some money.

I am pretty bummed, guys. But, now we know. Perhaps ill give the carbon speed guys a try, afterall.

-Clam[/code]
 
I am sorry to hear that. I'm not surprised, but still, I was hoping you would have better success.
Maybe there is more to it then originally thought. Obviously it can be done, but I don't think it is as simple as matching up some specs on paper and then plug and play.
AGM batteries, for all their short comings, are really very good. One day LiFePo's may be as good and cheap as AGM's. Keep trying and let us know.
 
well, actually, it is that simple. If these cells performance even came close to whats advertised, we'd have working packs.
 
Part of my point was that "specs" on paper are often not what happens in the real world.
And if it was that simple it would have worked. Sorry. Better luck next time.
 
and thats why i want my refund, cause the numbers were way off. :angry:

It started my neighbor's buddy's gsxr and my dad's dirtbike just fine, but that was the 12 cell pack. never did try it with less, cause if i keep unsoldering/resoldering packs it will eventually ruin them.
 
So it works, just not enough ass to start our Guzzi's without dropping below the voltage threshold.
From what I hear people buy DeWalt 36v battery packs with A123 cells on ebay and make RC battery packs out of them.
Again, sorry to hear it did not work out.
 
Clam, I'm sure you know that most consumer-electronics lithium batteries deliver their optimum performance only after a few dis/charge cycles. You sure that's not the case with these cells?
 
Yep, they work just fine, but they dont deliver as advertised.

it's true, most batteries are only good to about 80% before they have been "broken in". No, i didnt break it in, but if that's my margin for error, that's too small and no good.

These should still work on bikes that dont have low voltage cutoffs as high as ours. It started my neighbor's buddy' gsxr ( the 12 cell pack) without any real troubles. But i wanted one on MY bike.

Yes, i could have made a 16 cell, but that's just too much hassle/too much money for an experiment, plus i start to run out of space. (they may be light, but they are the size of C batteries.)

There may still be a future for these, but it requires testing on other bikes. Those of you who wanted ones for your kickstart bikes... you are fine. It will work as advertised.
 
Gotta love suck it and see engineering. What a bummer - all the ideas and numbers looked so promising.
 
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