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Clutch Chatter

canuck1969 said:
Ride the bike and while in 2nd gear slip the clutch (partial clutch engagement) and rev the engine as i described. You want to heat up the clutch so it burns off what ever is on it.
Ok, now I understand :)

Thanks!
Worth a try :cool:
 
BlizzGuzz said:
canuck1969 said:
Ride the bike and while in 2nd gear slip the clutch (partial clutch engagement) and rev the engine as i described. You want to heat up the clutch so it burns off what ever is on it.
Ok, now I understand :)

Thanks!
Worth a try :cool:

Let me know how it turns out. I had a 1/2 second (literally) chirp this morning but that was it. Sat all day at work and got back on and not a sound. If it does it again I will burn it off but no more drawn out groan. :D
 
When I was at the Guzzi rally in Lavigne on Aug 23rd, Carlo from Corsa Mechannica did a few brake stands and the problem went away, had to do it a few times since to keep it quiet.
 
Regarding the clutch chatter problem, I recently received from my 200+ mile-away-dealer a response from Piaggio stating that "...there was a quality problem with some of the original pressure plates. They now have the replacement pressure plate to solve the problem. Every unit they have repaired now performs as it should.". Since purchasing the bike new in July, I've had multiple emails, phone calls and two return trips to the dealer, who was trying to get an answer from Piaggio. Their response came only after I requested that Piaggio take the bike back and refund the purchase price. Since the clutch is but one of four problems I've had with the bike in less than 3 months, a refund request seemed reasonable. However, thus far its been denied. At least I've finally received some sort of answer on the clutch!

Its frustrating to have such a great bike marred by quality issues. I've not had this much dealer warranty interaction in total for the other 13 bikes I've owned.
 
My 13 is developing and interesting thing. :? When it is cold and I start it up it almost sounds like a Ducati dry clutch. Disengage the clutch and silence, let it back out and rattle. After a bit and after about 4 squeals from the clutch :lol: it pretty much goes away.

I am taking it up to the dealer this weekend for the suspension recall and a headlight issue and will have them check it out. In a way I kind of hope they know about what Piaggio said from the post above and will give me the new updated clutch. It does not really bother me but I am also thinking about 50K miles down the road.

Marc
 
lomax said:
My 13 is developing and interesting thing. :? When it is cold and I start it up it almost sounds like a Ducati dry clutch. Disengage the clutch and silence, let it back out and rattle. After a bit and after about 4 squeals from the clutch :lol: it pretty much goes away.

I am taking it up to the dealer this weekend for the suspension recall and a headlight issue and will have them check it out. In a way I kind of hope they know about what Piaggio said from the post above and will give me the new updated clutch. It does not really bother me but I am also thinking about 50K miles down the road.

Marc

My 2012 has started doing that also. Always did it from new but louder in the last little bit. It is just the plate rattling around and don't think it is anything serious but I am bringing my bike in on Saturday for the shock recall and will push for a replacement.
 
Markus H said:
Regarding the clutch chatter problem, I recently received from my 200+ mile-away-dealer a response from Piaggio stating that "...there was a quality problem with some of the original pressure plates. They now have the replacement pressure plate to solve the problem. Every unit they have repaired now performs as it should."..

New info regarding above. Talked to the service mgr at the dealer working on my bike who indicated the clutch/diaphragm spring (the part at the extreme left in an assembly diagram) had wear on it indicating that it was not flat. This part doesn't show that it can be purchased (no partnumber). He indicated that it will be replaced. The dealer has been very good about getting MG involved in resolving this. Apparently the regional MG tech has been participating in the teardown/diagnosis/correction process, which I MUCH appreciate.
 
Where is your dealer located - we'll all head down there lol
IF MG has acknowledge there was a bad patch of clutch plates at the factory one would think they would put out a service bulletin. AF-1 Racing in Florida or MG Cycle are the go to if you want to get straight answers - all the rest of the dealerships here in Canada at least don't do enough volume to have Piaggio's interest. Its all about the money.
 
A LOT of emphasis should be placed on slipping the clutch and NOT double clutching the bloody thing...especially not in 2nd gear at high revs!! :lol:

On a serious note, my MG (Oct 2011 18ltr model 19.5K miles) also sounds like it could be sporting a ducati clutch. Clutch engaged the engine purrssss something beautiful but clutch out and you could think you have a SERIOUS big-end bearing knock. In all, gearbox is noisy. It could be I have gotten used to the noisy engine until the recent service and tappet setting's. I will keep running it till something breaks/explodes/leaks or dies. (It has been like this for over 1000miles now...) I'm just going to keep my eye on it, not to worried tho, never any real issues with MG gearboxes or clutches...
 
guzzyupnorth said:
Where is your dealer located - we'll all head down there lol

Perhaps arranging Guzzi rallies wherever folks are having the most problems would be a good way to get attention and have fun at the same time? :p

My dealer seems to be "good people". I don't think they like this any more than I do. But as a newer dealer, they don't seem to have a great deal of Guzzi experience in their shop. Thankfully there is a MG support tech not too far away. At least that's what they're telling me. :?
 
Its been quite awhile since anything was added to this thread as little was happening. So here's an update:

The dealer pulled the motor and removed the clutch for inspection finding what appeared to be machining undulations in the face of the clutch. I've seen a pic and it could be either undulations from the machining or simply marks caused by the clutch chattering. They have replaced the complete clutch assembly with a new one. An additional plate came with the replacement assembly which mounts between the clutch and the fasteners which mount the clutch to the back of the engine. This seems the primary improvement to me.

Anyway, what I am most impressed with (after 3 months of frustration not having the bike) is what a great job my dealer did representing me and my situation with Piaggio. Not only has the bike been completely fixed, but my dealer sought and provided additional compensation in parts and service from Piaggio to make up for the unusual amount of time that was necessary to get the bike inspected by a Piaggio rep and to receive the new assembly from Italy.

I'd highly recommend visiting European Motorsports in Dahlonega, GA if you're in the market for a new MotoGuzzi.

Note to those with this issue: The Stevio manual states that you should not ride the bike if the clutch does not operate perfectly. My dealer quickly identified with this recognizing that they sold me a bike that the manual tells me I cannot ride. This helped get Piaggio focused on repairing the motorcycle under warranty versus recommending that I ride it and hope that the clutch problem goes away.
 
Well my clutch chatters and Piaggio has turned down any warranty work on it what so ever.

So according the the manual I should not ride the bike but Moto Gussi will not fix it. Just great. :eek: :evil:

That and the mystery high beam headlight that works part of the time but no cure found.

It's a little frustrating.

Just letting off some steam but what the heck.

Marc
 
Just ride the piss out of it and if your clutch fails, then they will have to honor a warranty issue...
 
Thats what I did now lets see if they step up

LOMAX the head light problem you have is THE LEFT GRIP SWITCH MAKE THEM REPLACE THE WHOLE ASSY then you will have light all the time TRUST MEon this one
 
canuck1969 said:
lomax said:
My 13 is developing and interesting thing. :? When it is cold and I start it up it almost sounds like a Ducati dry clutch. Disengage the clutch and silence, let it back out and rattle. After a bit and after about 4 squeals from the clutch :lol: it pretty much goes away.

I am taking it up to the dealer this weekend for the suspension recall and a headlight issue and will have them check it out. In a way I kind of hope they know about what Piaggio said from the post above and will give me the new updated clutch. It does not really bother me but I am also thinking about 50K miles down the road.

Marc

My 2012 has started doing that also. Always did it from new but louder in the last little bit. It is just the plate rattling around and don't think it is anything serious but I am bringing my bike in on Saturday for the shock recall and will push for a replacement.


Yep it is serious...ask me how I know
 
Markus H said:
Its been quite awhile since anything was added to this thread as little was happening. So here's an update:

The dealer pulled the motor and removed the clutch for inspection finding what appeared to be machining undulations in the face of the clutch. I've seen a pic and it could be either undulations from the machining or simply marks caused by the clutch chattering. They have replaced the complete clutch assembly with a new one. An additional plate came with the replacement assembly which mounts between the clutch and the fasteners which mount the clutch to the back of the engine. This seems the primary improvement to me.

Anyway, what I am most impressed with (after 3 months of frustration not having the bike) is what a great job my dealer did representing me and my situation with Piaggio. Not only has the bike been completely fixed, but my dealer sought and provided additional compensation in parts and service from Piaggio to make up for the unusual amount of time that was necessary to get the bike inspected by a Piaggio rep and to receive the new assembly from Italy.

I'd highly recommend visiting European Motorsports in Dahlonega, GA if you're in the market for a new MotoGuzzi.

Note to those with this issue: The Stevio manual states that you should not ride the bike if the clutch does not operate perfectly. My dealer quickly identified with this recognizing that they sold me a bike that the manual tells me I cannot ride. This helped get Piaggio focused on repairing the motorcycle under warranty versus recommending that I ride it and hope that the clutch problem goes away.

you must have been a squeaky wheel, I have had open warranty issues since june 2012, that have never been addressed
 
Well, I have found a solution to the chattering clutch. :)

It is well know and documented that the chattering dry clutch is pretty normal on all Guzzi's with a single plate dry clutch (and some double plate clutches) with the clutch engaged (lever out) and in neutral. My 2012 NTX has this also, getting louder as the bike got older. There are accounts of clutches being replaced and the chatter going away but what always bugged me was that even with the redesigned clutches and pressure plates that are in the later models, a single plate clutch is a single plate clutch. I believe that this chatter will return to these clutches as dust builds up in the housing.

So I had my starter out the other day for some service and decided to clean out the clutch dust given that more available area was exposed with the starter off. Between the starter area, inspection hole on the right side and the opening at the bottom of the bell housing, I blew out the area with some compressed air. Did this out side in the driveway as the amount of clutch dust that came out was incredible. Kept blowing until there was no more dust, and then did it again while engaging and dis-engaging the clutch. Put the starter back in and started the bike. Kept blowing through the inspection and bell housing openings while operating the clutch which produced more dust.

Once that was all done, the chattering at idle was reduced to just a quiet tick (more from the idling gearbox then the clutch) Little more noticeable when cold (significantly less than before), but gone once warmed up. Cycle the clutch on and off and still just a mild tick that one would normally hear even from a wet clutch (compared it to my VStrom). Took it for a ride today just to make sure, and no more chattering at lights with the bike in neutral and clutch engaged (lever out). Got home and in the garage and the chattering was still gone (normally can hear it more in the garage as it reverberates off the walls). As an added bonus, the groan at cold start is pretty much gone. Down to a 1/2 second blip and then no more. Only time will tell how long it lasts (or gets better), but I see this as a cure for the issue.

How the dust is affecting the clutch, not entirely sure but now part of my normal maintenance on the bike. I saw what this dust did in the starter. It stuck to everything and where it was exposed to gears, the dust was compressed and formed little rocks that stuck to the gears. Nasty stuff. As an aside, had the old starter replaced under warranty for slow starting. New starter seems to have rubber boots on it. Most likely to stop the dust from getting inside. Manufacturing date was end of 2012, so later models should have the new style. That being said, if you have slow starting, may be worth while to pull the starter and clean it out thoroughly. Pretty easy job that took about 1/2 hour. Now have a spare starter.

Take is for what it is....individual results and opinions may vary, but good preventative maintenance none the less. Proof is in my bike. Oh...and as for this chattering causing clutches to implode, I don't buy that theory so no debates. Just a characteristic of dry clutches and with proper cleaning can be eliminated.
 
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Take is for what it is....individual results and opinions may vary, but good preventative maintenance none the less. Proof is in my bike. Oh...and as for this chattering causing clutches to implode, I don't buy that theory so no debates. Just a characteristic of dry clutches and with proper cleaning can be eliminated.

Yep, brake pads can squeal and grind when they have dust on them. It is easy to see that the 'growling' is from clutch dust.
I had mine apart to fix a leak in there, and after cleaning it out, the 'growl' didn't return for a long time. But it did eventually return. It never really bothered me much though.

BTW, make sure that you wear a dust mask when you blow that dust out. You never know what those mystery materials will contain. Years ago they had asbestos which has killed a lot of people.
 
A ltiile squeal is not what these things do when the seeger ring and pressure plate fails from the shitty design, they wail and screech so loud that you cannot hear the engine run
Its been quite awhile since anything was added to this thread as little was happening. So here's an update:

The dealer pulled the motor and removed the clutch for inspection finding what appeared to be machining undulations in the face of the clutch. I've seen a pic and it could be either undulations from the machining or simply marks caused by the clutch chattering. They have replaced the complete clutch assembly with a new one. An additional plate came with the replacement assembly which mounts between the clutch and the fasteners which mount the clutch to the back of the engine. This seems the primary improvement to me.

Anyway, what I am most impressed with (after 3 months of frustration not having the bike) is what a great job my dealer did representing me and my situation with Piaggio. Not only has the bike been completely fixed, but my dealer sought and provided additional compensation in parts and service from Piaggio to make up for the unusual amount of time that was necessary to get the bike inspected by a Piaggio rep and to receive the new assembly from Italy.

I'd highly recommend visiting European Motorsports in Dahlonega, GA if you're in the market for a new MotoGuzzi.

Note to those with this issue: The Stevio manual states that you should not ride the bike if the clutch does not operate perfectly. My dealer quickly identified with this recognizing that they sold me a bike that the manual tells me I cannot ride. This helped get Piaggio focused on repairing the motorcycle under warranty versus recommending that I ride it and hope that the clutch problem goes away.

This is where mine is, glad you had better luck than I am, I was just told "wear item" part not avail. call Piaggio that I might be able to get them to good will the part. But piaggio customer service do not return calls....I am in the same boat with my Griso right now as far as Piaggio selling me a bike it turns out according to their own service documentation is un-safe to operate...but that is another quality issue all together

There is another major area of change the pressure plate that retains the seeger ring has been changed to help keep the ring from popping out and causing clutch failure...this is more common than folks want to admit.
 
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Re: Clutch Chatter- Solved

In discussions with a very reputable dealer my clutch groan is now gone. Looks like the groan....brrrrrrrrr....chatter....what ever you want to call it is caused by some sticky glazing on the plate. May be at the time of manufacture of the plate or perhaps not cleaned at the factory when install. None the less the cure is to burn off the sticky glaze.

When the bike is cold this "stickiness" is what your hear. Once it is heated up it goes away....kind of melting I guess. Goes cold....comes back. The key is to burn it off one and for all.

Ride the bike to heat everything up. Once it is good and hot, put the bike in second and slip the clutch and rev the crap out of it. I did mine for a about 3 to 4 seconds with revs up to 6000 RPM. Rode for 2 minutes then repeated for 3 to 4 seconds. Obviously there is a fine line between burning the stuff off and burning the clutch so don't go crazy.

Result....got up the next morning with cool temperatures. Got on the bike and no more groaning....problem solved.



There may be something to that.

Knock on wood- but I have not experienced clutch problems with my '12 NTX. Nothing, no noise, no grabby feel from this one.

I do take my bike into the woods and outback occasionally and the clutch gets a workout, Im sure. This bike is not a Highway Queen.

I'm wondering if these clutches work better when they are occasionally "worked-in" or "burned-in" a little.
 
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