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Clutch slipping...

ARVENO

ARVENO

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
159
Location
New York, NY
Hello Folks, howdy ?

Moto guzzi sp 1000 1980 , 25k on the clock, clutch is slipping like crazy.

Questions :
> is there any kind on adjustment to do , or d io have to replace it ?
25k for a clutch seems too low but i don't know how the PO drove this bike .

> can i get the gear box out leaving the engine in the frame ? of course i'm planning to take the rear end out....

last question : i am planning to get a NOT STOCK clutch plates , maybe something more expensive but that will last longer any suggestion ?

Thank you very much,
Marco


btw, i am not talking about the regular clutch cable adjustment...i thought that maybe , the throw out bearing is broken... will it cause clutch slipping ?
 
Actually, the stock plates seem to work best. The after market plates seem to have their own set of problems. The new plates from Moto Guzzi (4mm splines) go for about a hundred thousand miles under normal use. Be sure to get a new hub gear, intermediate plate, o-rings, push rod seals, and transmission front seal. I'd also consider it wise to get new pressure plate springs considering the age of the bike. Probable reason for clutch slipping is oil contamination. Likely causes are from the push rod seals, or the transmission front seal. Yes you can crab the frame to remove the transmission leaving the engine in the frame.
 
If the clutch plates are found to be of good thickness but look burned by improper use is it worth to trim the surface from the burned material or it does not worth the risk of having to go into trouble of getting them again out?
Do the stock disks accept such makeshift treatment with good results?
 
Mi_ka said:
If the clutch plates are found to be of good thickness but look burned by improper use is it worth to trim the surface from the burned material or it does not worth the risk of having to go into trouble of getting them again out?
Do the stock disks accept such makeshift treatment with good results?
Click to expand...

Considering the labor involved in getting to the clutch, it is wise to use new parts. If the pressure plate and intermediate look good, it is OK to clean them up, but replacing the friction plates is best.
 
I have replaced the clutch to my airhead in the past, and i think that doing it to my moto guzzi is going to be kinda the same labor, but, does anyone have an idea of how many hours a shop will charge to do it ?

Thanks
Marco

btw Is it MANDATORY crabbing the frame or can i get the gearbox out without doing it ?

seems i have to take off rear wheel, shocks, swing arm , drive shaft , starter, battery, carbs... then looks like i have room to pull the gearbox out.
Make sense ?
I am asking becaue i don't want to take everything apart and then discover the hard way that i need to crab the frame.
thanks
 
Nice crabbing guide. I didn't read it thoroughly so I don't know if this is covered but I'd have additional straps or whatever, connected to the rear frame attached to the ceiling just in case the crabbing gets disturbed ( I live in earthquake country).

A rear main seal is worth replacing while your in there. Check bolts and gaskets for leaks/weeping as well.
 
Flat rate time for a tonti frame clutch replacement is 6 hours. You must split the frame to get the transmission out. Either remove the upper frame completely, or use the crabbing technique. BTW, taking the frame completely off takes more time. It is also difficult to get the upper lined up properly if completely removed.
 
John, Rafael , thank you very much for your help...
..can i ask you another little help ?
usually i get parts from MGcycle.com
could you please help me to pick the right disc plates..i see there are 3 different plates suitable for my bike:

http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1164

http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1166

http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1165

which one would you pick ?

Also, is this tool "mandatory" ?
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=2618

Where can i get the " o-rings, push rod seals, and transmission front seal "

I found this push rod seal
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=434
is it ok ?

I didn't find the trans. front seal and o rings.... any help ??!!

thank you again for your time.

Marco.
 
My clutch plate preference is are the plates from Moto Guzzi. If I were to use one of the sets from MG cyclke, I believe my choice would be this one http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1165

The clutch alignment tool isn't absolutely necessary, you can use a hub gear to align the plates, however, using the special tool takes all the guess work and frustration out of the job. I actually use the factory special tools. The MG one will work just fine. Also go with the 4mm spline clutch plates and hub gear.

Here is the output seal http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1362

Input seal http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1363

o-rings under the clutch hub http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1385 and http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1385

You should be able to find a PDF of the parts manual on the web http://www.tlm.nl/onderdelenboeken/ and you can search MG Cycle's web site by part number.
 
john zibell said:
My clutch plate preference is are the plates from Moto Guzzi. If I were to use one of the sets from MG cyclke, I believe my choice would be this one http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1165

The clutch alignment tool isn't absolutely necessary, you can use a hub gear to align the plates, however, using the special tool takes all the guess work and frustration out of the job. I actually use the factory special tools. The MG one will work just fine. Also go with the 4mm spline clutch plates and hub gear.

Here is the output seal http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1362

Input seal http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1363

o-rings under the clutch hub http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1385 and http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1385

You should be able to find a PDF of the parts manual on the web http://www.tlm.nl/onderdelenboeken/ and you can search MG Cycle's web site by part number.
Click to expand...


John , where can i get the moto guzzi clutch plates ?

I've been looking on line but didn't find them....

Thank you very much for your time, i appreciate it .... Wednesday i am off , and i'm planning to work on it, i want to get the trans out , see what i will find...then order all the parts .

Thanks
Marco
 
john zibell said:
Marco,

To get Moto Guzzi clutch plates just pick up the phone and call the Moto Guzzi dealer of your choice. You can find a dealer here http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/find-dealer.html

John
Click to expand...


ah ah !! sorry I know it's obvious , pick up the phone and call a dealer.... :D .... that's sooo cool !!

I'm use to harley dealers... i've got 2 old harleys and because the dealer DO NOT carry parts for old bikes I thought the Moto Guzzi was the same way....
I am always struggling to get parts for my HD's , trying to avoid "china made" parts...and it does feel good knowing that to get guzzi's part i have to call a dealer and order them !!...and don't have to hear " sorry but your bike is too old , noone rides them anymore...." :evil:

Ok, thank you !!
I will post pics later on....

Ciao
Marco
 
The clutch plates fit big blocks from the 1972 Eldorado, up to today's dual plate clutched 1100 Brevas and Norges. Don't you love it when a manufacturer doesn't change parts much!!
 
john zibell said:
The clutch plates fit big blocks from the 1972 Eldorado, up to today's dual plate clutched 1100 Brevas and Norges. Don't you love it when a manufacturer doesn't change parts much!!
Click to expand...


...oh !! Man i love it !! and i love the way the Moto guzzis twin run....
 
john zibell said:
The clutch plates fit big blocks from the 1972 Eldorado, up to today's dual plate clutched 1100 Brevas and Norges. Don't you love it when a manufacturer doesn't change parts much!!
Click to expand...


so , i called a Dealer and when i told him i have a 80's guzzi e told me they don't have anything.... BUT you're saying the clutch plates are the same as Norges and Brevas... so SHOULD i just tell the part guy i got a breva and needs 2 clutch plates ?

...Thanks...
Marco
 
The SD-Tec plate were out of stock for my last clutch job, so I went with the Stucchi. The only friction plates I've had problems with are the Sureflex. They wore out the clutch hub prematurely.

To emphasize what John Z. said, get the updated clutch hub with the 4mm splines. If you're concerned about the expense of the clutch tool, I'd check the price of the factory plates before considering them. My guess is that Stucchi makes them for MG or that both of them buy them from the same fabricator.

I did my first clutch job without the factory tool, ended up warping the intermediate plate because one of the springs was not seated correctly. It popped into place while I was compressing the starter ring bolts. This does not seem directly related to the use of an alignment tool, but if I had the tool I would not have been mucking around trying to align things by eye. So, bite the bullet and get the tool. If you are crabbing the motor, it is even more frustrating and time consuming w/o the tool. If you decide to go ahead without the tool, the hole in the crank is a M12x1.5. Take the motor out and tip it face down so that the springs stay in their seats. Use the clutch hub, bolt (M12x 1.5x 75mm), and some washers/spacers. I would be best to have a machinist make a spacer to fit in the clutch hub for the M12 to pass through.

Are you in the SF bay area?
 
Maybe what I suggest is sacrilage,but five or six years ago my 76 T3 clutch became unusable,(draging and slipping ) and I stripped the gearbox off ,I found that the splines in the flywheel badly notched as well as the hub. The cost of replacing everything paying normal dealer prices was daunting.
At that time an independant Guzzi oufit called motorwerks in Huddersfield Yorkshire,suggested a R.A.M. complete clutch,it had a light alloy flywheel, and a ceramic clutch,best of all it was half the price,and very easy to fit.
I still keep in touch with the current owner of the T3,and the clutch has been fine,it didn't upset the way the engine ran, being a lot lighter and the gearchange was quicker.
Just A thought.
Lee
 
Drumnagorrach said:
Maybe what I suggest is sacrilage,but five or six years ago my 76 T3 clutch became unusable,(draging and slipping ) and I stripped the gearbox off ,I found that the splines in the flywheel badly notched as well as the hub. The cost of replacing everything paying normal dealer prices was daunting.
At that time an independant Guzzi oufit called motorwerks in Huddersfield Yorkshire,suggested a R.A.M. complete clutch,it had a light alloy flywheel, and a ceramic clutch,best of all it was half the price,and very easy to fit.
I still keep in touch with the current owner of the T3,and the clutch has been fine,it didn't upset the way the engine ran, being a lot lighter and the gearchange was quicker.
Just A thought.
Lee
Click to expand...

Lee,
i thought about the R.A.M. but it's a little bit expensive.... i am sure in the long run i'll be happy but right now..money are tight mmhhh i cannot spend 600 bucks for it , it's twice what i am going to spend for my clutch set up.( gonna spend 330 )
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=1698

Being the mileage of my bike 25k i am sure the clutch plates are reusable, but i prefer keep them as a spare.... just in case , and get everything new.
I don't really know why the clutch is sooo bad , we guess oil contamination...but to know, i need to open..

...thanks to telling me about your experience

Marco
 
Marco,

The parts you need are the same as an 1998 EV. If the dealer can't find those, he shouldn't be a dealer. Also don't forget the 4mm splined hub gear. The new style plates won't work with the old style hub. Besides, plates and hubs should be renewed as a set.
 
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