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Cold Start Device 8V 1200 Sport

stinga

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Karridale Western Australia
My old 1997 1100 FI Sport had a fast idle lever on the left side handle bar, to start you would move the lever like an old style choke hit start then once the engine is running alter engine speed. Don't know why Guzzi didn't stick to this oh so simple idea.
Was just wondering has anyone adapted, or know of, a similar system to their FI Guzzi's that have had the stepper motor air feed pipe blocked.
Mine is working as it should, I think, from the factory only after pouring a whole can of carby cleaner down it's throat to remove the residue. Starts up and fast idles when cold then drops in increments to the correct RPM but what is annoying is it does this even after the engine is well and truly warmed, PITA when coming to at stand, sorry locomotive talk for stop, or maneuvering around round-a-bouts.

Cheers
 

Bisbonian

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
355
Location
Tucson, AZ
Todd used to sell an electronic solenoid that made shutting the stepper on and off an easy flick of a switch.
Many people have put a shut-off valve in the hose for the stepper for manual control.
I can't remember where I bought the valve I installed and I sold the bike over a year ago but there are probably discussions about it somewhere on here from other people.
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,511
Location
Huntsville, AL
Also cleaning the stepper up helps it to close faster. It may be sticking. There is a hole in the airbox for the Stepper air supply and if you put carb cleaner down it then the stepper should work better.
 

stinga

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Karridale Western Australia
Also cleaning the stepper up helps it to close faster. It may be sticking. There is a hole in the airbox for the Stepper air supply and if you put carb cleaner down it then the stepper should work better.
Cheers John
Yeah mate done that with the motor running. Have blocked off air supply to the stepper and I only have to monitor and alter the engine RPM for a short time till things run smoothly.
 

Brian UK

GT Reference
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
2,085
Location
Addlestone, Surrey, UK
I bought an electrovalve which can shut off the air supply from Ebay, needs to be a large enough bore, otherwise cold starting is difficult.
I controlled mine from a thermal switch bonded to one cyclinder head, so it shuts off automatically when the engine is at 70 degrees celcius. Also fitted an LED which lights when the valve is open so I can see what is happening.
 

scottmastrocinque

Scott Mastrocinque
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
1,809
Location
Findlay, Ohio
I never understand this when it appears here.

The stepper motor is a simple, well-functioning design that requires minimal maintenance and then usually only when excess oil has been put into the engine and been blown back into the airbox.

Even the most stubborn and choked up versions I have seen, clean up easily and return to normal function when properly cleaned.
 
Last edited:

stinga

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Karridale Western Australia
I never understand this when it appears here.

The stepper motor is a simple, well-functioning design that requires minimal maintenance and then usually only when excess oil has been put into the engine and been blown back into the airbox.

Even the most stubborn and choked up versions I have seen, clean up easily and return to normal function when properly cleaned.
G'day Scottmastrocinque,

I do enjoy reading your positive and very in formative post and most recently I followed yours's and others advice on how to clean the stepper motor and balance the throttle bodies with great success.

Just a bit of history on my bike.

I have not done any servicing on my bike because it's a 2010 8V that is under the recall to replace the cam mechanism, when it's required, all the servicing has been done by one of the most reputed Moto Guzzi shops in Perth.
Bike has always started OK and the stepper motor was working to good effect when cold, no stepping was noticed when hot and riding or blipping the throttle when hot the RPM would settle straight away.
It has Todd's full blown fueling kit on board but I could never get it to run smoothly between 2000-3000 rpm, Todd can attest to the amount of map upgrades done and he has even offered to tune it via the internet.
Bike has always dripped oil out of the air box over flow pipe but the oil level is half way up the dip stick as per Guzzi's checking technique.

Decided to put into good use your throttle balancing procedure and check the valve clearances. Found the valves set to spec but the throttle bodies had both air bleed screws open, more on the left side. So adjusted them correctly, left side 1.5" higher at 4000 RPM, then rest the TPS and it was running great then took it for a ride and came up to the first stop and bike was idling at 1850 rpm. Got home run motor and done what I said my first post recheck TPS. Sill the same problem so redone the S/M cleaning but to no avails, maybe a full strip of the induction system is needed even after only 40k's.

So I block the air feed to the S/M problem solved and this is the reason why I asked the question that you cant understand. Not sure if there is a oil temp sender problem or even if ECU reduces the S/M operation once the oil is at the correct temp.

And for Todd to once offer a kit to isolate the S/M must indicate that there is frustration with in the clan and I hazard to guess the custom bike builds don't use a S/M, I stand corrected.

I can appreciate the stepper motor principle and its uses in the automotive scene to raise engine RPM to compensate for air conditioning, power steering and to help reduce exhaust emissions but my bike has neither A/C or P/S.
And being a shop owner I can appreciate your reason for rooting for the S/M and if these types of question raise your blood pressure and stress levels scroll past and keep posting positive contributions.

Cheers Mate
 

scottmastrocinque

Scott Mastrocinque
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
1,809
Location
Findlay, Ohio
G'day Scottmastrocinque,

You misunderstand me and I do understand your question. I just find it misguided in my opinion.

I believe anybody can do whatever they want to do with their motorcycle. I honestly don’t care. I see wild and crazy stuff people do to motorcycles to “improve” them or make them “run right” every single day.

I only am trying to wrap my head around some of these “solutions” is all. As far as I know, a properly working system, works.

I just though all of this sounded way more complex, expensive, and erratic than a stock setup properly working stepper motor.

Hey but it works tor you and that’s great. Just not sure it’s a path I would go down.

BTW: The question doesn’t raise my blood pressure or stress level one bit. Thanks.

However, it always seems that any question or information that doesn’t fit you Aussies preconceived opinion, pricks you. Unintended I assure you. It was just a point to ponder.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. You have a nice day too mate.
 
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Kevin.NZ

High Miler
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Howick, Auckland, New Zealand.
Just out of interest, does your bike have an oil temp sensor? the reason i ask is I have a Breva 1100 and it doesn't. It does have an engine temp sensor that is attached to the right hand cylinder. If that is faulty the ECU will always think its a cold engine. Also on the Breva when the clutch is operated there is a switch under the lever and that raises my revs by around 100 RPM. I have a manual switch to turn off the air to the stepper motor, I operate it after about 2min of the engine running and has always worked fine with an RPM of 1100. Of course the the clutch switch doesn't raise the RPM if I have the stepper motor air supply blocked.
 

V700Steve

GT Reference
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Atlanta area, GA
One of my friends took his metal stepper out & blocked his tubes. On cold start he puts a feeler gauge in front of butterfly stop screw. Works fine. The real fix is to buy the newer plastic stepper but they have doubled the price twice making it real expensive.
 

Raven

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
778
Location
Lac Ste. Marie, Qc
One of my friends took his metal stepper out & blocked his tubes. On cold start he puts a feeler gauge in front of butterfly stop screw. Works fine. The real fix is to buy the newer plastic stepper but they have doubled the price twice making it real expensive.
A double-double = 4x or around here it means a Tim Horton coffee with 2 cream and 2 sugar.
 

stinga

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Karridale Western Australia
Just out of interest, does your bike have an oil temp sensor? the reason i ask is I have a Breva 1100 and it doesn't. It does have an engine temp sensor that is attached to the right hand cylinder. If that is faulty the ECU will always think its a cold engine. Also on the Breva when the clutch is operated there is a switch under the lever and that raises my revs by around 100 RPM. I have a manual switch to turn off the air to the stepper motor, I operate it after about 2min of the engine running and has always worked fine with an RPM of 1100. Of course the the clutch switch doesn't raise the RPM if I have the stepper motor air supply blocked.
Kev,
It is a 2010 model and there are no error codes on the dash indicating a oil temp sensor fault, that's if one is fitted ?
Being Guzzi's fascination with over complicating electronic gizmo and not being very successful at it , just look at start us interubtus and, before Todd's ECU reflash, you just had to hit the start button, with out holding it down, on mine and walk away and it would sort of self start. Why have that type of electronic overkill, Guzzi's use to be simple, and that's why in my original post I asked about a simple mechanical system. Been looking at a MTB seat dropper post activation leaver and cable, maybe.
Yeah mate on mine the RPMS increase once in gear and you let the clutch out slightly, like hill start assist LOL.
 

stinga

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Karridale Western Australia
One of my friends took his metal stepper out & blocked his tubes. On cold start he puts a feeler gauge in front of butterfly stop screw. Works fine. The real fix is to buy the newer plastic stepper but they have doubled the price twice making it real expensive.
That sounds like a fix but it sounds odd that something made out of plastic is better than a metal one, mines made out muck metal,
 
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