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dashboard interference

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by Roblatt, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Finally to the last part of my repair project.

    Before re-assembly I plugged the dash in to see if it worked. All good.

    I then placed the dash back into the casing and replaced all the retaining screws. Again I reconnected the dash to the bike and turned on the ignition, LCD fail. Better now than later.

    I worked out that the ribbon connector was faulty but I had no idea why. It turns out the ribbon cable has a crease in it which when straightened would allow normal operation. Since it appears to be glued in over the solder, I decided against trying a repair. Instead some electrical tape rolled onto a cylinder pushed underneath the cable appears to straighten it enough to work correctly.

    Next I put the dash back in the casing and connected it to the bike again and viola, it works. I then screwed the polycarbonate screen on and again wired it up. Still good.

    I rewired it at each stage in case of issues because I didn't want to seal it and then start again. Well, I've been riding the bike for a few days and no issues so my next job is to apply sealant and the chrome trimming.

    Question - if I may. I did some research into Selleys All Clear and it's inappropriate because it affects polycarbonates (the clear plastic over the dash). I emailed Selleys to see what they could offer and they suggested Roof and Gutter Sealant. I happen to have this already and it appears to be a neutral cure and doesn't affect plastic and can be used on skylights. No mention of polycarbonate. Can I assume it should be safe? Thoughts?
     

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  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    I don't believe the straightening of the cable will be a permanent repair, There is a break in that cable that will just fail again. Is there an electronics place near you that can replace the ribbon cable? In any event I wish you luck with the repair.
     
  3. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    I realise that John. But I was told there could be issues in this type of repair of the possible glue over solder. I don't know about these things. My concern is if I end up with a greedy "let's get into it" type, I may end up having to fork out for a new dash.

    I figure see how far this gets me, if/and/or when it fails again I'll strip it out and see if I can find someone to do it without fear of a functioning dash being rendered useless.

    At the moment I have electrical tape sealing the dash. I may leave it that way for a while longer and see what comes up. The bike is useable so I'm not in a hurry to finish it off. Either way, I'll keep the forum informed of any outcomes as it may help others.

    cheers

    Robert
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    That glue is probably a conformal coating. It is common on circuit boards in military applications and other extreme environment electronics. Compounds such as MEK are used to remove that coating. Then is is basic soldering and re-application of a conformal coating to effect the repair. Like I said, an electronics shop, not a regular mechanics job. Maybe you could ping Tony (oz1200fuzzi) to get his opinion. From his posts I think he does this type of work.
     
  5. Averb

    Averb Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Hi Robert
    A lot of clear roofing is Polycarbonate so yes I think that this should be OK. I would still try and use as little as possible while still achieving a seal, which I know is easier said than done.
    Good luck
     
  6. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Thanks Averb. Those are my thoughts too. I still haven't finished the job yet because I emailed Digitec in Italy to see how available those ribbon connectors are. I've heard nothing yet, I'll give them a few more days and then maybe I'll write to them in Italian.

    meanwhile, we wait

    Robert
     
  7. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    OK folks, an update.

    I contacted Digitek in Italy (in both english and italian, and they told me they are unwilling to supply me with any parts for the dash and that I could only get the parts from a Guzzi dealer. Well that ain't gonna happen as the dealers only sell complete dash units.

    I've spoken a tech person I know, done some research at the university of Google, and come up with the conclusion that because the ribbon cable is soldered to the LCD screen it cannot be replaced without specialized equipment, and that's IF you can find the matching cable.

    There is a you tube video where a guy cuts one of these cables and then painstakingly repairs it, but I don't have the skills, and I don't think my technician mates like me enough to do what's required.

    So I've decided to leave it as is, finish putting it together again and say a little prayer that it holds.

    I have been riding the bike for a while now with electrical tape to keep the rain out, and so far it has performed faultlessly. Except for today for about 1 minute bugger it. I will most likely strip it down again and try to secure the cable a little better before I seal it with silicone - when I get the time.

    cheers

    Robert
     
  8. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Hi Robert, Haven't been paying attention lately, sorry, but here are a couple of suggestions:
    http://australia.rs-online.com/web/ and
    http://au.element14.com/

    both will have listings under ribbon cables and you would be after one that goes between printed circuit boards. measure the size of the wires and the spacing between the wires and the length, to see if you get a match.

    the downside would be how many there are in a pack (often 5) when you only need one.

    BTW are you coming up to the Ruptured Budgie next month?
     
  9. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Any possibility you could salvage a ribbon cable from a dashboard that has been replaced for other problems? There must be a few around.
     
  10. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Tony,

    It just happens I was talking to my brother in law, he wears a hat with a propeller on it, and he thinks it might be a hairline crack on the solder which expands in the heat causing the failure, apparently a common problem on LCD screens, especially automotive dashboards. He told me to pull it apart again, plug it into the bike and to test for play in the solder joins. If this is the case, he has the equipment to re-solder and many different ribbon cables of all sizes.

    The only problem is, he lives near on 600km away. So I'll keep riding it as is until I eventually get up there. No I won't post it up, if you see his shed you'll understand, people have gone in and never been seen again.

    As for the Budgie, it's on the bucket list but I've already planned for the Winton raceway historic car and bike weekend run by the Austin 7 car club. As with everything, it will happen. It's those damn leave passes that hold me back.

    Dave, finding used ones could be problem, and then there's the fear of the same problem recurring if the same ham fisted Luigi assembled both. But, it may fit in as a last resort.

    Oh well, looks like I won't be finishing the job yet so the saga continues. I will of course post updates when I know more.

    cheers

    Robert
     
  11. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Update:

    Well, I took it to a local guy who specializes in digital motor vehicle dash boards, including motor cycles. 3 weeks later I picked it up and the LCD was completely dead. No amount of jiggling would show a pixel, it was working fine with intermittent problems when I dropped it off. Not blaming him, it probably was on its last legs anyway - no charge.

    Dragged the dash and bike 400km up to said brother in laws a few weeks later. He pulled the screen out re-soldered the LED back light for the LCD checked the screen and it appears undamaged. He concluded that it was probably the microchip that runs the LCD and he didn't have the equipment to pull such a small chip off.

    Well, now I'm wrapping it up in bubble wrap and posting the board to Carmo in the Netherlands. Hopefully they can work it out. They seem confident.

    I'll let you know the outcome.

    cheers

    Robert
     
  12. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Update.

    This morning the dash arrived from Carmo Electrics. I plugged it in and all is fine. All I need to do now is reassemble and ride.

    For those interested it required a new LCD and, from them the following quote "The power to the LCD driver was too low and the driver itself was also defect". I quoted them because I have no idea what it means and I don't want to lose the meaning for those who understand.

    It took 2 weeks for them to receive it, 2 days for them to fix it (even sending me a video of the working dash) and 9 days for it to return. Not bad since the riding days have only just started in this part of the world.

    happy days are here again!

    cheers

    Robert
     
  13. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Good stuff Robert.

    What they are saying is that the LCD requires a minimum voltage for it to operate correctly - yours was below minimum required - obviously something wrong with its power delivery;
    The driver is a pile of little connections that enable the LCD to operate as a matrix - getting a batch of pixels in a row to turn on, then getting onto the next row, and the next, and the next etc, etc. This happens really fast and the LCD is a slow device to light and dim so you get what is an apparent static display that updates from time to time - in reality it is going nearly as fast as you are (on your Guzzi) to make it look that way. Imagine your TV and you have the same concept.

    Are you coming up to the Ragged Fringe Rally in a few weeks time? Be good to catch up...
     
  14. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Thanks for that Tony, I'm now a little more informed. I just hope the thread can help others in some way.

    Ragged fringe is out for me. It's my busiest time of the year for work and I'm doing Tassie late October, so only one trip allowed here. Maybe next time I hit NSW or you're here in Mexico.

    thanks for the explanation

    Robert
     
  15. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    I try for the Spag every year. But, unfortunately, it occurs (seemingly deliberately) on the occasion of my wife's birthday - definitely dangerous to even consider it..
     
  16. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Wild ride.

    OK all, I got it all back together and took the bike for a blast on Sunday. I was cruising at an indicated speed of between 160kph and 240kph. It did feel a lot like 90-100 kph.

    Anyone have clues as to why the speedo is showing crazy speeds. The symptoms are as follows:
    1. at first both speedo and tacho were showing high figures - speedo as above and tacho around 6-7000rpm. With ignition off tacho showed 4000 and speedo showed 80kph.
    2. ignition on and off several times without starting and the tacho reset and now operates as normal so no problem there, and it has remained good.
    3. Speedo will reset back to zero with ignition on/off several times but it's not cured. As soon as I rev it out, it shows wild speeds.
    4. Speedo speeds are not constant and do flicker up and down (ie jumps around) and after an hour or so of riding creeps up to well beyond the indicated 240kph mark
    5. The needle on the speedo shakes. That is, it doesn't operate smoothly like the tacho.
    6. When I was dismantling the dash, the pin that the speed gauge slips onto came out, and I just reinserted it. Could this have caused damage?

    Could it be too much current to the speedo because of the chip that has been replaced, or a fault of other proportions. Where should I start to look for diagnosis?

    thanks as always

    Robert
     
  17. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    I'd send it back to Carmo. Be sure to tell them about the inaccuracy.
     
  18. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Thanks John, that would be my intention but I'd like to avoid it if it is something simple. I did also sent an email to Carmo in anticipation of having to return the unit.

    I've had a response from Carmo, and they say to check the ground on the bike. Other than the one at the starter cover, where else should I look?

    quoted " I think it could only be a bad ground (bad reference) in the bike."


    Robert
     
  19. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    The Ecu and the dash both have earths - since the dash has been out that is a good spot to look. Check for loose wires in the plugs to the dash...
     
  20. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Thanks for the help so far.

    I've had a good look and all the wires seem ok. I've unplugged and replugged all the connections to ensure they make correct contact. What else can I do? How does one go about isolating the earth leak? I have a digital multimeter, can I just earth each wire until I find continuity, or could this short the computer if I get the wrong wire? Also, would I test each connection to earth, or test for continuity by touching +ve to -ve of each connector?

    After each step I have to take it for a ride just to see if there is a change and as you can imagine it's frustrating. And we have a boys night out on the bikes tonight for pizza. I'm going, but I'd like to know my speed though town. (I've been using the "max speed" indicator on the trip meter so there is a way around the problem in the short term.

    Any guidance would be appreciated.

    Edit: would contact cleaner make a difference?

    regards

    Robert
     

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