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Engine History

J

JAS

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
70
Location
AUS
Hi all:

I was looking at an old 850 Eldorado the other day, the crankcase on the outside looks almost the same as my 2007 1200 Sport crankcase. How closely related are the engines from the first 60s model bikes and the last of the 2v motors?

From my reference book the stroke is 10mm larger (70 vs 82) on the 1200, and the bore size has increased from 80 to 95mm. Given the engine power has more than doubled, I guess they are not the same case with a longer stroked crankshaft squeezed in and bigger barrel mounting holes?

Interestingly they also share a generator in between the V as well, though thankfully MG gave up on the Italian (or Bosch?) generator long ago and fits those nice reliable Nippon Denso alternators now!

Thanks,

Jason
 
From my reference book the stroke is 10mm larger (70 vs 82) on the 1200, and the bore size has increased from 80 to 95mm. Given the engine power has more than doubled, I guess they are not the same case with a longer stroked crankshaft squeezed in and bigger barrel mounting holes?

They're not the SAME, just as Harley EVO motors are not the same as the old Shovels/Pans etc, but the lineage is definitely there. And a fair amount of the parts inside ARE the same as 1967.

In my opinion, Guzzi is hampered by this, in that they haven't been able to capitalize on their history and unique look, as Harley has. Guzzi should be just as successful as Ducati but they're not. New Guzzis are the best they've ever made and have a unique mechanical feel to them, but only a relatively few faithful are willing to buy them. That unique mechanical feeling feels kinda OLD, and the sad truth is technology sells better than nostalgia now. Even HD is feeling it. The market for Harley is old people, and old people are running out of gas.

Joe
 
It was not that long ago that Guzzi blocks still had the boss for the distributer, the new Guzzi motors have a lot more in common with the old ones then Harleys do. They have truly evolved over the years without any major jumps that blur the line.
As to Guzzi being hampered by this, well... I will agree that they have not been able to capitalize on this, but the nostalgia market is there and it is strong. Look at Triumph or Harley or Ducati (yes Ducati vintage style bikes have modern performance, but so do new Guzzis), they all have been able to capitalize on this.
Back to the original question, they have a lot in common, more then just about any other brand, but few directly interchangable parts.
 
On further looking at the book, the bike was actually an 850GT. A real massive old bus with huge wheels and brakes.

I think Guzzi has tried capitalised on the whole heritage thing (maybe not as well as other manufucturers), its just that their support network is so hopeless, that prospective buyers are not confident of the backup for new bikes. The bikes themselves are good, it seems that Guzzi has upset all the really decent dealers, so we are left with the second rung dealers which are hopeless and the real Moto Guzzi enthusiast dealers (which are pretty rare).

If Guzzi could get a decent support network of dealers and improve their parts backup, they would be on their way.
 
Unfortuneatly the one thing Piaggio (and Aprilia) does not bring to the party in the USA is dealer network and support. I know of a few dealers that were ok with the old Guzzi way in spite of the lack of support but now with Piaggio they are being alienated and jerked around and that is worse then being left on their own with little support. So some have left and called it quits. While there are some that could go away with out a tear shed, Guzzi has so few dealers (one in my state of MD) that they cannot really afford to lose dealers. I hope Piaggio realizes that the dealer network is the most important asset when it comes to selling bikes and without a good dealer network you will sell few bikes no matter how good they are.
 
Pricey, inconvient to locate parts. Non-McDonald type "stores." Unusual non-HD/Yam/Hon etc. designs. Querky (OLD). "What are they thinking?" prevelent among the "reformed." Dealers come and go.

Believe it or not Guzzi has IMPROVED over the decades. The shop in Chicago I bought my 1st one from in 74 was definately non-user friendly.

These are some of the things that make Guzzi what it is.... whatever that is.

Just my .02 Euro.

Alex
 
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