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Evap removal from V7III

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Godfrey, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Mayakovski

    Mayakovski Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Sounds like a good plan, just make sure to have a new fuel map for all these changes.
     
  2. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    ... slip ons, SAS removal, EVAP removal, a good ECU map to suit...

    Pretty much the same as what I've done, and all the V7III Racer needs engine-wise far as I'm concerned. :)

    The next stage of performance improvements after that is to overhaul the front suspension and fit a better set of tires to get the bike working and handling the way it ought to. I went the extra mile with the fancy Kineo wheels, because I'm like that, but sorting the suspension and putting something better than the Pirellis on there is the important part.
     
  3. omin00b

    omin00b Just got it firing!

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    So I did my EVAP delete and i think gas is leaking --- yesterday my gas light came on and I filled up at the gas station and it was only at 154 miles.
    I noticed it dripped a little from the breather hose this morning b/c I filled it to top but I'll stop filling so much next time.
     
  4. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    I fill the tank until the fuel touches the bottom of the filler opening's spacer cage. That gives the tank the required amount of minimum air volume needed for venting without pushing fuel down the vent line. :)

    The nominal capacity of the tank is 5.5 US gallons. About 0.25 gallon of that capacity is the minimum air space required for venting properly. My "low fuel" light always comes on, and stays on, when I can fit just about exactly 4 US gallons of fuel into the tank, with the fuel just touching the bottom of the spacer cage. My mileage at that point is almost always 200 miles, plus or minus 5 miles or so, for a measured fuel economy of 47 to 51 MPG.

    G
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  5. Roose

    Roose Tuned and Synch'ed

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    My V7III is doing the same mileage. Can't recall any leaks either. 2>1 Exhaust, evap removal and SAS block off. Nice 350 miles in one day average 48. Ran hard in the foothills of Appalachia, Daniel Boone National Forest.
     
    Poppe likes this.
  6. Larry Vance

    Larry Vance Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So the problem in line 5 is that valve. Can I just disconnect it from the canister and leave it open?
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Richard Ducati

    Richard Ducati Tuned and Synch'ed

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    The cannister side can be left open...the manifold side, however, needs to be plugged to avoid a vacuum leak.
     
  8. PokeyGuzzi

    PokeyGuzzi Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Would it be a dumb idea to put a small fuel filter at the end of the un-plugged hose? I’m thinking it would both keep any dust from possibly getting up the line, and also slow the flow of any fuel that makes its way down the line. Is there a better filter idea? Or is it pointless?
     
  9. Mayakovski

    Mayakovski Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    It's a good idea, I believe that Todd was working on one for this exact use, but am not sure.
     
  10. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Some people like it and feel more secure doing it. In the distant past I added a small K&N filter to the breather on my Ducati 750GT; I know it was there for 6000 miles but noticed it missing at 36000 miles; never saw any difference in the oil or running behavior of the bike. My LeMans V ran over 100,000 miles with just an open tube as a vent breather on the tank and never had a single problem, as did many other motorcycles I've owned. Because of that, I think it's pointless.

    Since I did my EVAP removal, I added a short extension to the tank breather hose so that it hangs down just below the starter/level with the bottom of the transmission, purely because I thought the short hose was a little too short... I've never had any fumes from it nor has there been any evidence that dust has gotten into the tank from it.
     
  11. PokeyGuzzi

    PokeyGuzzi Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I just performed this operation after reading through this thread over the past couple of weeks. The whole thing took me less than an hour. Could probably be done in 15 minutes if you’ve done it twice already.

    One thing I did, which I haven’t seen mentioned yet, is purchase some stainless barbed plugs on eBay. If you search “1/4 stainless barb plug” you’ll get several results. Worked perfectly to plug the hose. I also used a brass 1/4” barbed coupler from the hardware store to extend the breather hose down below everything. That way if it does leak (which I don’t expect), it’ll leak onto the ground without getting on anything. I used oetiker clamps on all fittings.

    I wasn’t having any issues that made this immediately necessary, but it would need to be done when my 2>1 exhaust eventually shows up. I had some free time so figured now’s as good a time as any.
     
  12. Roger65

    Roger65 Just got it firing!

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    So I think I understand this. If I wanted to remove everything cleanly I could

    1) Remove hose 5 from manifold and use a vacuum cap on the manifold stub
    2)Remove Hose (5) Canister (1) Hose (2) and Valve (3)
    3)Extend Hose (4) down to vent below bike

    Keep removed parts for next owner to reinstall if desired.

    Am I on the right track? I know this has been explained five different ways, I’m a slow learner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  13. PokeyGuzzi

    PokeyGuzzi Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Step 3 is optional, but yes you’ve got it right. The vac cap on the manifold would need securing of some kind. Otherwise, a backfire could blow it off. Someone mentioned, I think in this thread somewhere, that leaving the hose on and plugging at the end gives the gasses a little expansion room. I don’t know if it’s enough to make a difference...
     
  14. Roger65

    Roger65 Just got it firing!

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    Excellent! Thank you
     
  15. Roger65

    Roger65 Just got it firing!

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    73B5A973-EBF3-47CE-A498-594D8EEC4F1F.jpeg

    So I did the evap delete, here is where my fuel line ended up venting



    2BAC8841-A48C-4A74-9DE3-0D5F72836F0E.jpeg

    Here is where I cut and capped the vacuum line to the manifold.




    04F37132-E39B-4328-8FC3-4BF6EA09C70E.jpeg

    Here is a photo of what I removed.

    Everything was straightforward, not sure about the fuel venting location. Maybe I will put a small filter on the line. I can see vapor coming out of there after a ride.
     
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  16. SMTCapeCod

    SMTCapeCod Just got it firing! GT di Razza Pura

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    I would drop a few $ to upgrade, rather than amputate, but realize I'm in the minority.
    For now, I just leave the fuel filler cap too loose to vacuum seal.

    I have to do a lot of stop and go on my commute- sometimes an hour with net speed 8 mph. Usually around the 40 min mark, irrespective of air temp, the idle will kick up a couple hundred rpm. This can happen with no control inputs, dead stop/no jostling, feet on the ground.

    I could see it as a design element to increase oiling during hot temps/low rpms, or to increase flow through the cats, but have never read anything along those lines.

    Thought maybe the fuel pump was impeded pulling down the fuel when the cap was tight if the evap system wasn't working well, hence the looser cap approach.
     
  17. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I brought it to the mechanic today and had this completed.

    On the breather line from the gas tank to the Evap canister: the valve is removed / by-passed, so the line is straight and open.

    On the vacuum line from the Evap canister to the intake manifold: cut in the middle, jam a slug on the opening closest to the intake manifold (I put yellow clamp and zip-tied to make sure the slug stays in place), on the side to the Evap canister is removed.

    Evap canister stays in place and has an open end on the side where the vacuum line used to be attached. Hopefully if I overfill the gas tank, it drips to the Evap canister and evaporates.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. David Pasquini

    David Pasquini Just got it firing!

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    Finally did the SAS and EVAP removal to complete the overhaul of my V7III exhaust. First I wrapped my headers and mounted my new Mistral Shorts. I used the GTM SAS removal kit, which was pretty straightforward, then removed the EVAP system (below) and finally flashed the ECU with the GTM Flash Tool.

    Here is another way to skin a cat, if it serves useful to anyone looking to do this...

    The EVAP removal was fairly simple. Did my homework on these forums - first. Then I completely removed the vacuum line to the manifold (since I already had the gas tank loosened having just finished the SAS delete) and plugged it with a rubber vacuum cap and a hose clamp.

    For the breather line, I decided to leave the canister in place to catch any rogue drops of fuel and to prevent dust from entering (very unlikely, I know, but I ride often into Mexico where the dust flows like wine!). I snipped the breather line above and below the check valve and joined the two with a 5/16 (7.9mm) barbed fuel line coupler from O'Reilly's. It fit very snugly on the line. I hose clamped both of the snipped ends to ensure the coupler doesn't move and zip tied it all back into it's original stock position. See pic below for a visual.

    [​IMG]

    Took the bike for a nice 150 mile ride east of San Diego yesterday. Can't say enough about how great it feels. Its been said before but I'll say it again: it is a whole new bike. With the new fuel map + deleted EVAP and SAS + exhaust, this bike is just so much smoother. Especially the first 3 gears. Before it would jerk and lurch forward like it had a mind of its own, and now it rolls off a stop like butter. Very pleased with it all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  19. atul saini

    atul saini Just got it firing!

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    I just did the all of the above : deleted EVAP and SAS and installed the new GTM Map. The bike is clearly smoother (from a short ride) and seems to rev higher and develop a bit more power. I do have one fundamental question : if the SAS system serves no purpose at all, then why did Moto Guzzi put it on the bike at all? Is its just because of the popping sound that the bike makes when it's with the original map and no systems touched? If there's no value, why add SAS at all? Any ideas?
     
  20. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    If you search just a little here, you’ll likely see that it is in place to reduce tailpipe emissions by (ridiculously) blowing atmospheric air into the exhaust port. Triumph blows it into the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke which makes a touch more sense, but combusted fuel/air is just that no matter how much air you add.
     

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