Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

[scottmastrocinque]

Old thread, but related question, hope it's ok to ask here;

When buying a used bike with higher mileage that was converted to rollers, does it matter much at what mileage the conversion was done? Like, if the bike has been ridden for a long time with flat tappets before the conversion, any kind of permanent damage that could have occurred, or shouldn't it matter really?

I would not be concerned. When the tappets started to go, they made a holy hell racket and nobody would have kept driving it like that for any appreciable distance.

Dealers who did the rollerization, did a good job. I've never seen nor heard of a rollerized bike failing engine wise.

 

[Raven]

Not sure, going to check it out later today and try to find out as much as possible. the bike has around 40-45k miles and I know the seller is locally known as a big Guzzi fan so pretty sure it's well cared for, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference if that bike was rollerised at 5k or at 35k.

There's another one I saw where asking price is CAD 1000 more, and it only has around 6000 miles on it, but it's a bit of a long drive to get it (located in Vancouver, I'm in Calgary). Owner said it's a factory roller engine. I feel that one might be the better value but then again a 10yr old bike that seemed to sit still for so long can have its own share of issues. Both are 2012s

There's 2 in Calgary listed on Kijiji. A 2014 with 18,000 km. in Canmore and a 2013 with 36,426 km. Both are under 9K CAD and both would be rollerized from the factory. I love the brown ones (2014) even though mine is white.

 

[Jo3r1]

There's 2 in Calgary listed on Kijiji. A 2014 with 18,000 km. in Canmore and a 2013 with 36,426 km. Both are under 9K CAD and both would be rollerized from the factory. I love the brown ones (2014) even though mine is white.

You're looking at Norges, not the Stelvio (just realized I never specified in my previous post which model I was talking about).
Gorgeous bikes too that I was really considering, but wanted something that can handle the gravel roads. Next year is the 10th anniversary of my move to Canada where I spent the first couple months hitchhiking north and up the Dempster highway before settling in Calgary, wanted something I can redo that trip with that summer to celebrate

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Went to check it out today and talked the owner down on price. Bike was well kept despite it's mileage, took the valve covers off to confirm rollers. Picking her up tomorrow.

 

[Raven]

You're looking at Norges, not the Stelvio (just realized I never specified in my previous post which model I was talking about).
Gorgeous bikes too that I was really considering, but wanted something that can handle the gravel roads. Next year is the 10th anniversary of my move to Canada where I spent the first couple months hitchhiking north and up the Dempster highway before settling in Calgary, wanted something I can redo that trip with that summer to celebrate

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Went to check it out today and talked the owner down on price. Bike was well kept despite it's mileage, took the valve covers off to confirm rollers. Picking her up tomorrow.

Ah, OK. At first I thought I had misread your first post. As a Norge rider I guess that I just assumed it was a Norge. Good luck in your hunt.

 

[wilsonbw]

Hi, first post…. I know this has been discussed forever, but I need a little advice. I’ve just purchased an 08 Stelvio which is in excellent shape, full service history at 30,000 miles. The history does show a roller conversion back in 2011, however riding it home it rattles like a pig and I’m going to check valve clearances for starters. My question is, can you visibly see if the conversion has been done, if so can these fail? Lastly, if for some reason it hasn’t been done…. Can I purchase the kit still. I think after this amount of time, the changes of a dealer handling any claim is very unlikely. As such I may have to do this myself… Any advice would be appreciate. Bob

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Hello and Welcome.

Now, time for your first chastising...

SEARCH & READ please. Everything you want to know is right here. Either John Zibel the Moderator or Todd (GTM) merged your post here where it belonged after I wrote this to you below.

There are photos in this thread. Read from the first post.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

BEFORE WE GET STARTED, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS Nobody can perfectly diagnose a motorcycle issue fully and competently via a description and a sound clip over the internet. Experienced individuals may be able to narrow the issue down, and even have a strong opinion about...

www.guzzitech.com

Unless you have bonafide paperwork from a dealership stating that this has been completed and itemizing the parts and labor, I would not believe that it has been done. People lie lie lie.

I have never heard of a rollerized motor ever failing again.

I am almost positive that all of the update kits are long gone…check the part number with a dealer.

Without parts, you are going no place in a hurry with regard to repair if necessary.

Warranty claim? No way.

A used 2008 with 30k miles…you have no claim whatsoever.

 

[Raven]

Todd has one listed in the store. https://gtmotocycles.com/products/1200-8v-roller-cam-update

 

[scottmastrocinque]

He’s in Ireland…

If it is even available, Shipping and Customs Duties will be outrageous.

Again, check with a dealer or Todd in the STORE tab.

 

[wilsonbw]

Well from what I can tell by having now taken the covers off, it looks as though this was one that got away… Comparing what I have (photos below) against the “before“ photo a few pages back, it looks as though the Dealer who was supposed to have done this many years back, lied… unless I’m missing something. I know there’s no way I can claim on this and I expect to do the change to rollers myself, so I need a little advice. Before I strip this down, could anyone advise where I can get a workshop manual. The bike is early 2008 and I’m confident I can complete the job. Alternatively has anyone got any instructions on removing the heads, as I understand they have to come off on my engine. I’ll contact the store, as it looks as though they may still supply these.

lastly, could someone just confirm these are the flat type from the photo, just before I strip it down. Cheers

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Not done. They lied.

The noise you hear will only get worse and worse which I explain in the detailed explanation above which I wrote years ago.

The motor will be badly damaged and your camshaft will likely get beaten to hell on the cam face if you don’t fix this soon, based upon your statements of the current noise coming from the valve train.

I hope you read it. Knowledge is power.

If you had read the entire thread here you would know answers to all your questions. (Hint hint..)

Hence the thread title:

“Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.”​

Members who DONATE to the site (there are no ads here, it’s privately funded as stated in the top three rotating screens at the top of the page above the 3 dots - if you haven’t read those, you need to please) have complete access to the DOWNLOADS section which has the factory service manuals available for you. Come join us and become part of the GuzziTech famiglia.

Also in this forum, there is the TSB, technical service bulletin about which kit, etc. READ IT.

I hate to harp but you have some reading to do my friend BEFORE you start into this project. To not do this initial information collection, would be extremely foolish.

 

[wilsonbw]

Scott, take your advise whole heartedly and happy to have just donated. New to all this and do appreciate all the help.
I suppose I’ve got many evenings of engine oil covered hands ahead, getting to know the engine. I’ll download the manuals as soon as I can and start the process, but after I’ve read the thread from start to finish. Bob

 

[scottmastrocinque]

 

[wilsonbw]

In the extensive service history it showed that in 2012 the bike had new cams fitted, so I contacted the dealer who undertook this to see if he could trace what was done. (stripping down the heads showed flat cams still present) He said at that time before the roller conversion was done, they just changed the cams and followers and made sure to use the correct oil. He enquired as to why I was asking, I explained that it needed a roller conversion as it’s rattling some what and he said, “if you want my advice, get a set of good replacement cams and get rid of it!”.

Now I’m not one to give up, as I do think the bike (when correctly fixed) will be a good ride, as I think it looks great and who wants a “GS” anyway.

I’d be interested in your thoughts on how good this bike is in reality and is the engine sound when fixed.

 

[Raven]

When rollerized the engine is solid as a rock (and the bike too). Good for many 10's of thousands of miles.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

In the extensive service history it showed that in 2012 the bike had new cams fitted, so I contacted the dealer who undertook this to see if he could trace what was done. (stripping down the heads showed flat cams still present) He said at that time before the roller conversion was done, they just changed the cams and followers and made sure to use the correct oil. He enquired as to why I was asking, I explained that it needed a roller conversion as it’s rattling some what and he said, “if you want my advice, get a set of good replacement cams and get rid of it!”.

Now I’m not one to give up, as I do think the bike (when correctly fixed) will be a good ride, as I think it looks great and who wants a “GS” anyway.

I’d be interested in your thoughts on how good this bike is in reality and is the engine sound when fixed.

When repaired correctly, it is a fine machine and I have heard of no further issues with rollerized units.

If it was mine, and the rest of the motorcycle was in great shape, I would do it.

 

[tomas]

Hi there,
Regarding this problem. My Stelvio is out of warranty, and 9 years have passed since the recall. The problem appeared during now at 25K. Do you think Piaggio still responds positively by replacing these parts free of charge or is it already a closed issue?

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Unless you are the original purchaser, and you have a service history with a dealer…Not a chance.

 

[JasonC]

Reading about the tappet failures was both intriguing and puzzling. Notably there a zillion flat-tappet motors in the wild that have lifters that do require a special thermochemical heat treatment in an attempt to make them reliable.

So why is the 1200 8V engine unique? Is it perhaps a lubrication problem? Or maybe the cam lobe profile is to "sharp", or...?

If it's a material problem, then I would think the "fix" would be easy.

Puzzled,
Jason

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I wrote specifically about what the problem was. It was right there. Did you read?

In the Moto Guzzi 1200 8V flat tappet engine, the camshaft lobe runs directly on the tappet face itself, which had an anodized black coating put on it called DLC "Diamond like Carbon Coating". This coating is an exceptional coating traditionally used on high end components like fork tube suspensions on superbikes like GSXR's etc, because is protects the fork tube sliders and makes for excellent smooth movement of the fork leg. It is also used on internal engine parts including camshafts and even tappets and it is an excellent coating for what it was designed for but as with anything, there are varying degrees of quality and Super High Quality DLC is an expensive process.

However, whomever Moto Guzzi contracted with to make their particular DLC coatings, did a poor job because, in this particular instance within the Moto Guzzi 1200 8V engine, as an internal engine part coating on the flat tappets, which are subjected to the high speed and high heat abrasian of a uncoated yet hardened cam lobe riding directly against it, it quite frankly, sucked. One surface eventually ends up destroying the other.

 

[JasonC]

I wrote specifically about what the problem was. It was right there. Did you read?

Yes, but my point is: why is a special coating required in the first place?

Many, many motors have lifters/tappets with no special thermochemical heat treatment (special coating) and they are reliable for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Jason