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Fuel filter options, Stelvio NTX

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Peter, I've used the WIX on a myriad of bikes, though I haven't had one out of the big tank NTX yet. I suspect it should be the same. Do let us know what you find.
    I have this one online for those who need one; https://gtmotocycles.com/products/all-metal-in-tank-fuel-filters
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    If the NTX is like the others, BMW motorcycle shops have the filter if needed. It is the same as used on early K bikes and oil heads.
     
  3. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    The NTX filter must be different from other models. The BMW filter (16 14 2 325 859) is too long and fat. The NAPA Gold 3023/WIX 33023 is too long and fat.
    [​IMG]
    this is what comes out of the tank. Note the yellow filter is held in place by a white 'cup'. The top of the filter is pressed into a white plastic fitting and is sealed by an O-ring.
    [​IMG]
    take out two screws, unplug the electrical connection to the pump and it all pulls apart. Now we see the filter.
    [​IMG]
    The filter is labeled FT 5714 and I cannot find a cross reference so it looks like this will be a dealer-only part. I'm not sure if mine is discolored or if the yellow is normal. I do not see any swelling but am replacing anyway due to mileage (15K).
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    That is not nice of Guzzi changing the fuel filter type. I didn't see anything wrong with the old style filter except for the half plastic ones. It makes me wonder if any of the other new models are using this filter.
     
  5. pyoungbl

    pyoungbl Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    John, the part number is 641277 so it's not an Aprilia part. The Stelvio pump mounts from the rear/top of the tank, not the underside. As I recall, the Norge mounted from under the tank so maybe the NTX is an odd duck.
     
  6. nose2wind

    nose2wind Tuned and Synch'ed

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    How often should the fuel filter be changed?

    Thanks
     
  7. lomax

    lomax Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I have not had mine apart yet, but from the pictures is the white collar and O ring just presses over the normal sized outlet ?? Could it be removed and placed on a semi available filter. ?

    Just adding fuel to the fire. :mrgreen:

    Marc
     
  8. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    I doubt it. For now we will need to use the Guzzi part in these bikes until someone discovers the same filter in an automotive application.
     
  9. pyoungbl

    pyoungbl Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The filter is pressed up inside the fuel pump assembly. You can see that in the photo where the whole thing is assembled. Since this is a press fit I can't see any way to McGyver anything else in place. As for the frequency of replacement, mine was flowing fuel just fine. The concern was more about ethanol affecting a plastic filter and making it weak enough to rupture, a common problem with plastic filters inside a fuel tank. I had hoped to replace the plastic filter with a metal one but so far have not found a replacement that will work in this application.
     
  10. nose2wind

    nose2wind Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Re: Fuel filter replacement milage?

    Anybody know a mileage it should be replaced?
     
  11. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    The replacement fuel filter arrived today. You will note that the new one looks just like the old one except for color change.
    [​IMG]
    Old filter on left, new on right. The new filter came with both a white plastic collar and a new "O" ring.
    Re-assembly is pretty easy except for getting the fuel line back on the filter. That took a bit of help from a heat gun to get the fuel line soft enough.
    [​IMG]

    Someone asked about the fuel level switch. Here's a photo of that part of the pump assembly:
    [​IMG]

    With the tank buttoned up everything seems to be working perfectly. Whew!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  12. Ed Baker

    Ed Baker Just got it firing!

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    BMW filters are recommended to be changed at 24K. I have personally gone 30K on several K1200RS and R1150's with no problem. Don't know what Guzzi recommends.
     
  13. WayneOrwig

    WayneOrwig GT Reference

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    My 2004 EV, with a small in tank filter, was changed at about 90,000 miles.
    My Stelvio only has 53,000 miles. I'm in no hurry.

    It is one of those things where you can unfortunately pull in for gasoline, and the station can have a lot of water, rust or crud in the line, and your filter, even if new, is instantly plugged up. A service manual can't guess when you are going to get bum fuel.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
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  14. Stevie

    Stevie Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Never stop at a service station if there's a transport truck there in the process of unloading fuel.
     
  15. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I couldn't get hold of the Sogefi filter, sales people just stare it me blankly or the other end of the phone line just goes quiet. Fortunately we have forums (like this one) and Google....

    The Fleetguard FF149 (an inline metal filter) seems to be a replacement for the stock plastic Sogefi FT5714 (Guzzi/Piaggio part #641277) filter, I discovered this by chance on a Husqvarna forum (some or other Husky model also uses the FT5714), I couldn't get hold of one to confirm. However, the Baldwin BF840-K1 (also an inline metal filter) is an equivalent to the Fleetguard FF149, which I could get hold of, and it is a drop-in replacement.

    Below is a pic of the BF840-K1 vs the original plastic job from Sogefi.
    IMG_20180708_175118813.jpg

    Another view:
    IMG_20180708_175141080.jpg

    While I had the fuel pump out, I also replaced the alligator hose with a straight piece of Continental SAE J30R7 50PSI hose, new S/S clamps, etc -- this was a bit of a fiddle, but not too difficult. I originally tried some cheaper 'no brand' SAE Fuel Injection hose, but the outside of the 'no brand' hose swells in petrol (gasoline), the Conti hose doesn't (I left cut-offs of both in some fuel overnight to check). Here's what that hose and the mod looks like:
    IMG_20180805_154159018.jpg
    IMG_20180807_185706183.jpg IMG_20180807_185726938.jpg

    Something that I noticed is that the bike's pinging (pinking/knocking) is gone between 4000 and 5000 rpm when accelerating hard in 4th/5th gear (probably 6th too, just can't hear it because of wind noise). But I cannot say for sure it's because of the filter change. The bike also idles better.

    Notice that the cup holding the filter on my fuel pump is white/cream coloured. I had replace my original one because I broke it trying to fit another filter :mad:. The white/cream cup is off a Vespa's fuel pump, it is EXACTLY the same part as used on the Guzzi's fuel pump.
     
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  16. AZRider

    AZRider Just got it firing!

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    My local O’Reilly cross referenced the Baldwin to an ACDelco that says both GF61 and 854583 on the box. It fit perfectly.

    I stuck with the original accordion tube. I found that the fuel injection type hose clamps that MotoZA used above would not get a good seal on the thin plastic hose. I used an Oetiker clamp and it worked on the first try. It’s the 11.3mm (before crimping) size. You can get ten packs from Motion Pro through your motorcycle shop, or in the assortment pack of “Dorman OE Solutions” brand at auto parts stores.
     
  17. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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  18. AZRider

    AZRider Just got it firing!

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    Does anyone have the dimensions of the O ring that goes on the fuel filter output? I am hoping to order some before I take mine apart.
     
  19. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    You ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE TO READ THIS but you need to know because you are in for a very rude awakening!

    That Conti fuel line is UNACCEPTABLE for submersion in gasoline. It will soften and rupture within a few days or couple of weeks.

    You must use fuel line manufactured specifically for immersion in gasoline. There is no substitute and the hose is not cheap. In fact, it’s expensive as hell.

    10 inches on Amazon will cost you $23 but you MUST USE IT AND NOTHING ELSE or you will be very sorry!

    Gates is the brand I have used on many motorcycles and scooters with submerged fuel pumps.

    “Ordinary fuel line is designed to handle fuel on the inside only. With in-tank applications, gasoline also comes in constant contact with the outside hose surface, making it vital to utilize a hose that’s engineered to be submersible.

    Gates Submersible Fuel Line Hose is capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline, ethanols, biodiesel or diesel fuel in fully-immersed, mobile and stationary applications.

    • Engineered for constant contact with gasoline (and other liquid petroleum distillates) on the inside and the outside.
    • Excellent for use on fuel pumps in the gas tank (100 psi working pressure).
    • Fluoroelastomer (FKM) tubed cover resists gas permeation and retards aging.
    • Aramid Fiber reinforcement―the same fiber used in bulletproof vests and is pound-for-pound stronger than steel.
    • Meets the SAE 30R10 specification for submersible fuel line hose applications.
    • Maximum temperature +302°F (+150°C).“

    amazon.com/Gates-27097-Submersible-Fuel-Line/dp/B001R5XX56
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  20. AZRider

    AZRider Just got it firing!

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    Scott, thanks for that important warning for all who read this thread AND for proving a solution.

    Still looking for dimensions of the o ring if anyone can provide them.
     

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