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Going to throw my bike off a cliff again UPDATE

Spaceclam

Spaceclam

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
472
Location
Chatsworth, CA
So, this whine has gotten real bad, and i got somebody to ride next to me on a bicycle to see if they could locate where the sound was coming from. They did.

It appears to be coming from my swingarm, or the carc.

So, I went to change the carc oil to see if i could see anything unusual in there. Well, it turns out the purple lube i used last time was now black, and there was a little bit of stuff on the magnetic plug, but not much. So i just got the bulk of the oil out and replaced it with some clear stuff, and took it for a 2 mile ride to get it all mixed up, and drained the oil again to see if anything odd came out.

My oil was full of black stuff. The oil was clear enough, but there were tiny little chunks of non-magnetic black crap. And there was a lot of it, especially considering i changed my oil only 1500mi previous to the problem, and then again only a mile prior.

I haven't swapped carcs or anything, so i dont know if this is the problem. Any thoughts or suggestions?

bike only has 21k miles on it.
 
The only way to know for sure is to go in and see what is going on. There are some threads of the nut not being staked and coming loose causing problems. If that has an effect on the pinion, I don't know. It could be the input seal as well. Considering only a couple of bearings and a seal are replaceable, and the price of a new one is sky high, I'd start looking for a good CARC off a salvage bike. Hopefully Pete will chime in as he has some experience inside a CARC.
 
Remove the CARC and peer down the tobe th pinion pokes out of. Youshould be able to see wth a flashlight if the peg nut that preloads the pinion has come loose. If it hasn't it is almost certain that what has happened is that the 'Big' bearing in the CARC has shat itself, although usually when this happens the seal goes too.

It may well be that your bike was one of the early ones with a crap Polish bearing with only 17 balls in. Any-which-way it's going to have to come apart. If you're lucky the damage will be confined to the bearing. If tha CARC is stuffed though I have plenty of spares. You need a press to get it apart,or at least it makes it a LOT easier!!!

Pete

PS. If the bearing IS one of the cheapo FET ones you should have recourse to getting a new CARC as I bealieve there was an actual 'Recall' on that one. I know of several bikes outside the supposed range that still had the duff bearing. What's your vin # and CARC #, (Stamped under the top boot on the wheel side.) and I'll get on to the importer today and find out if your bike is in the range and whether it is supposedly 'Fixed'. I seem to remember you bought the bike from a shop with a less than stellar reputation?
 
Some parts on my bike are marked as 2006. Does that make it an early one?

Ill have a look this weekend. Right now im commuting on my neighbor's kawi z1000 and it's fast, but i hate it anyway.
 
Spaceclam said:
Some parts on my bike are marked as 2006. Does that make it an early one?

Ill have a look this weekend. Right now im commuting on my neighbor's kawi z1000 and it's fast, but i hate it anyway.
Click to expand...

Yup, its an early one. Gimme some numbers Andrew.

Pete
 
Does it strike anyone as unusual that i am having to deal with this at 21k miles?

One of the reasons i bought a guzzi was because they are supposed to last a while.

zgulsc0027m113232
 
If itis within the recall range then yu SHOULD of been notified by your dealer SAND the factory when anf IF your bike's warranty was activated. FWIW Andrew I've found 1100 Griso's to be virtually indestructible, really. You just seem to have got an unlucky bike from a 'Can't give a shit' dealer.

Pete
 
im not sure how the vin numbers are ordered, but they want 6m111954 and i am 7m113232, so i assume i am not covered under the recall?
 
First things first Andrew. Lets see if we can actually identify what's wrong with it.

I'm pretty sure I've done a 'CARC strip for dummies' type photo-essay haven't I? If not I've got a couple more 'Spares' I need to re-bearing so I can do one soon if you'd like. It isn't difficult but it can be fiddly and sometimes thy don't want to seal up again properly.

Pete
 
For sure. The first thing would be to see if there was supposed to be a recall, so i can make it proitalia's problem, not mine (they are a dealer again). Time is really hard to come by at the moment.

Failing that, I will tear into it saturday, and have a look at the nut.
 
I saw it, thanks.
How tight should the preload nut be? Do i need any special tools? It looks like it from the carc strip thread, but i just want to make sure. IF so, where do i get one, or must i make one?
 
Torques specifications are in the workshop manual. If the Griso manual doesn't show the CARC, the 1100 Breva manual does. I don't know about the special tool issue.
 
As long as the locking tang is bent up on the lock washer that goes behind the peg-nut leave it alone for pity's sake! There is no specified torque but the CARC pinion does NOTuse a spacer or shims between the two bearings. they are just lightly pre-loaded and then the nut is secured with the tab-washer. Over torquing will lad to bearing failure, under torquing will lead to play in the pinion and the gears will flog out!!! If it looks OK? Leave it alone.. The peg nut is inidentally identical to the ones used to hold the crank sprocket for the camchain on on Bosch alternator equipped Tonti's! Same lock washer too!

My guess is the big bearing has shat itself. If there is no oil in the swingarm it is unlikely to be the pinion nut having come undone. Split the CARC, F@ck off the seal and old bearing. Wash everything scrupulously with kero or parts cleaning fluid and blow dry. Insert new bearing in wheel side case of CARC. Press it all back together CAREFULLY. Seal it with Threebond 1211 or Loctite 417. Use a clamp as used for front wheel drive car CV joint boots to seal the top boot, (There are cheapn tools available for installing these.) USe some more Threebond on the top and front boots to ensure they seal. Install the new seal with a well greased lip so it won't hang up on the crownwheel/wheel mounting boss. Oil it up. Bolt it back on the bike. Ride it and check for leaks and odd noises. After a week kor so drain the oil again and see if anything nasty comes out!

Pete
 
Pete,

Page 7-14 of the 1100 Breva workshop manual shows a torque of 170 Nm/125 lb-ft (pretty high to me) for what appears to be the pinion bearing nut. Is that incorrect? As stated above just good and snug is good enough? Just another questionable specification from Guzzi?
 
Interesting, we have just had a Stelvio CARC expire here in the UK. Bike is 2008 I think, and has done about 50k miles, always run two up and loaded most of the time.
Loud whine was the symptom, and black oil drained out.
CARC removed and replaced with other second hand unit.
Peg nut still intact and in place, but rubber diaphragm round input shaft perforated by debris.
Waiting on further info, as hopefully Baldrick from Corsa Italiana will be tearing it down soon to see what went wrong.
 
john zibell said:
Pete,

Page 7-14 of the 1100 Breva workshop manual shows a torque of 170 Nm/125 lb-ft (pretty high to me) for what appears to be the pinion bearing nut. Is that incorrect? As stated above just good and snug is good enough? Just another questionable specification from Guzzi?
Click to expand...

The pinion bearing nut is not mentioned because th unit is not supposed to be 'Rebuildable'. That spec is for the seal retaining collar which is what I'm busting my chuffer valve undoing with the big breaker-bar in the carc strip thread! That bugger is done up 'Super Tight'

Pete
 
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