Ridemalibu Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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Griso broke down :'(

Discussion in 'Griso-Bella Chat & Tech' started by Motor-Timothy, May 12, 2017.

  1. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Just got my Griso 8v from 2009 and 9500km back from the dealer. He did a 10k service interval, plus he fixed an issue with the bike eating fuses when trying to start. Apparently the previous owner had a startus interruptus bypass installed that was actually the cause of the bike blowing the fuses, somehow.
    I also had the flat tappets inspected. There was some very small superficial scratches only, not enough for the warranty replacement kit, so something to keep an eye on.
    I also had an issue with the gear often hanging between neutral and first gear when at a standstill (i.e. red traffick light) which is quite annoying. Supposedly he had fixed this, but today I ran into the 'problem' again.
    Anyway, after paying a hefty bill, I rode the bike home yesterday (through the city center, so only in first and second gear and max speed 50km/h) it seemed just a little bit more sluggish but otherwise fine. Today I made my first proper ride, unfortunately it was not to be.

    As I rode towards the highway, I noticed the engine tone suddenly became a bit lower. Initially I thought nothing of it, but a minute later as I went on the highway and I shifted into 4th or maybe 5th gear, the engine tone became even lower and louder as well. Then as I wanted to overtake a car I noticed I couldn't get any faster than about 70 km/h, regardless of gear.

    Suddenly there was a hammering sound from the engine, as if a midget was forging a sword, and the engine started moving very violently from left to right as if the cylinders went into overdrive. The RPM's went up and down at random a couple of times, and shifting didn't really have an effect on my RPM's or speed.

    At this point I was just next to an exit from the highway, so I took it, let the motorcycle roll out with the clutch pressed, then rode into a parking lot and stopped.

    After getting off from the bike I noticed the exhaust was smoking like crazy, with thick white smoke. I made a short video on my phone, but it doesn't show well on it. The smoke was about 3 times as impressive as it looks like on the video:

    http://sendvid.com/pl37jwfr

    The exhaust kept smoking for a good 7-10 minutes, with a very strong smell of chemicals or burning plastic.

    Called my insurance and the dealer I got it serviced with. The insurance company send a truck to collect my bike, and brought it to the dealer but it was closed so they'll check it tomorrow. *sigh*

    Since I'm not very technical, I was hoping someone here might have an idea what could have possibly happened. I'd especially like to know if any of the things the dealer did could have been the cause if they made a mistake, so below is an image of their bill. The stuff in dutch on it is essentially just the various kinds of oil and brake fluid, bottom two are small material & work hours.
    Of course it could just be a totally unrelated thing and just be bad luck, but its naturally quite suspicious when this happens on the first ride at higher speeds after being serviced.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks in advance for any support!

    Ps. I checked the oil level, which was good.
     
  2. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    I'll place a wager that either they did not properly tighten up the valve train after inspecting it for damage, or you had an adjuster nut on the valve let loose and vibrate either completely tight or loose, or the same nut was over tightened and it fractured into pieces which I have seen before. In fact, there was just a post on a Norge about somebody with the exact same symptoms.

    https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/nasty-knock-in-2008-norge.16975/#post-127405
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
    Motor-Timothy likes this.
  3. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    As it happened immediately after you collected the bike, you can guarantee the problem was the result of something they did. Without looking at the bike though there is no point in guessing.
    Trouble is, many dealers will never admit to errors.

    Two spark plugs 70 Euros?
    And I can't think what a previous owner could have done to make the standard startus interruptus mod blow fuses.
     
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  4. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Thanks for the input. Just spoke to the mechanic, he only had a quick look at the bike yet, but is hopeful the problem isn't too serious. The way I described what happened to him yesterday made him think the engine had been destroyed.
    Apparently one of the cylinders no longer works. His guess atm is that its an electrical problem, most likely a bobine failure. Would this make sense? Also, can this be related to anything he did on the bill?

    ps. yes the spark plugs are ridiculous. But its an official dealer so I go in expecting to pay too much.
     
  5. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Are you serious or just joking around here? If your mechanic thinks that you have an electrical problem, you need to run, not walk away from him. Hell, I wouldn't trust the guy solely based upon how he cheated you on that bill!

    Don't you remember what you wrote earlier?

    "Suddenly there was a hammering sound from the engine, as if a midget was forging a sword, and the engine started moving very violently from left to right as if the cylinders went into overdrive. The RPM's went up and down at random a couple of times, and shifting didn't really have an effect on my RPM's or speed."

    So, what "electrical failure" could possibly cause that?

    Law of Parsimony... In order to examine the tappet faces, the cam's had to be removed. Immediately after this, upon the first ride, the engine suffers a terrible cacophony. Logic dictates that they didn't tighten things back up properly - not an electrical issue, but then again, I'm sure they will find and fix it and give you another hefty bill! :sick::banghead::fubar:
     
  6. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Well I hope you aren't right, but I'll prepare for the worse. I found this video on youtube of a sv650 running on only 1 cylinder, its obviously not exactly the same, but the sound the engine makes (the banging) in the video is somewhat similar to what my griso made albeit slower and heavier sounding.

     
  7. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Symptoms are the same as running on one cylinder including the sound and lose of power. They will find the problem. May be a loose or broken plug or a damaged plug wire (which is my guess). Most likely original plug wires. At this age the probably broke when they removed them.

    White smoke is a funny one for an air cooled bike. May be the un- burnt fuel in the dead cylinder burning off.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  8. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    :banghead::banghead::banghead:

    Why do you say one thing:

    "Suddenly there was a hammering sound from the engine, as if a midget was forging a sword, and the engine started moving very violently from left to right as if the cylinders went into overdrive. The RPM's went up and down at random a couple of times, and shifting didn't really have an effect on my RPM's or speed."
    But you now say:

    " ...but the sound the engine makes (the banging) in the video is somewhat similar to what my griso made albeit slower and heavier sounding."


    These statements (to me) are not describing the same event, or if they are, then they are different stories entirely.

    :mad::mad::mad:

    It makes it very difficult indeed to offer any help to people, when they are not completely honest and straight-forward in relaying the details of the problem.

    Good luck with your issue. I'm sure your mechanic will figure it out.
     
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  9. Brett

    Brett Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I always dislike when businesses charge to the nearest dollar, I feel as though they aren't trying to be fair (gouging)and raises red flags. A few things on a bill being to the nearest dollar I understand, but everything...........

    That bill, if I am not mistaken, would be $1215 Canadian. That is crazy. I do most of my own work (I am not a mechanic) but the last time I did take my B11 in for work due to a lack of time, I got a full service, valve adjustment and the CARC and swing arm was removed for bearing cleaning and greasing. It was around $650 which included the 5% tax, parts and labour.

    Hopefully the dealer will work with you on a fair price solution for this issue as you have already spent a small fortune. Be sure to get a detailed report on what the technician determines to be the problem. I am certain you could post the findings here and get some addition opinions to whether it is accurate if in doubt.

    What did the technician do to fix the shifting problem? This may account for the cost if the engine was removed or clutch or gear box worked on. If so, could this be a potential source for the electrical issue? Something didn't get securely put back together or finally gave up the ghost?

    I find mine sometimes requires me to keep pressure on the shifter while slowly letting the clutch out before I get a good "click" into first gear. I accept this as a Guzzi thing. My Breva 750 was way worse for this. My wife's 8V Norge doesn't have this issue at all.

    White smoke. For the cost on that bill, did the technician convert it to liquid cooled?:rofl:
    Maybe some residual gas and oil vaporizing off of the inside of the hot exhaust from the dead hole (hopefully not oil blow by from a nackered piston or rings)

    Like I said, I'm not a mechanic. My 2 cents worth (which, for the record, would be 50 percent cheaper than in Amsterdam)
     
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  10. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Apologies if I conveyed what happened incorrectly, it was not by intend. To me the sound on the video sounds like a midget banging a hammer inside the engine, and for my griso the banging was slower and louder than on that video. The post of the Norge you quoted also has a recording of the sound, which is similar as well.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  11. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    You were spot on! The cause has been determined to be a damaged spark-plug cable. Explanation for the white smoke was given by the mechanic as unburned fuel from the dead cylinder getting into the exhaust system. Though he denied it was caused by the spark-plug replacement, diagnosis & repair is done free of charge regardless. I just need to pay for a new cable that he ordered from guzzi which he estimated at 35€

    Thanks for all the assistance from everyone.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  12. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Excellent news. Glad it worked out to be a simple fix. Now you can go and enjoy your new ride.

    if the plug caps are still original stock ones u may want to investigate some after mark NGK plug caps. They are not rubber and will not break when then are removed. If u are careful they will last a while but eventually they will crack.
     
  13. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Thanks, I got the same advise on a dutch forum about the NGK caps. Seems like a worthwhile investment considering the hassle a single damaged cable apparently can cause. I really thought the engine had destroyed itself when it happened.
     
  14. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Nahhh....these engines are tough. 99% of the time is it some simple problem. Italian electrics are notorious when it comes to issues, but luckily easy to diagnose and fix.

    Just have to listen to the bike....she will tell you what's wrong.......;)
     
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  15. Motor-Timothy

    Motor-Timothy Just got it firing!

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    Just got the bike back. Unfortunately the spark plug cable was over 70€ (I was told around 30€ by the dealer last week), and for some reason the dealer had replaced both of them in the two cylinders. €144 TYVM. Needless to say I wasn't happy. When I asked why on earth he replaced the cable in the working cylinder, his explanation was that the diagnostic tool told him there was a problem with both bobine 1 and 2. He initially wanted to replace both bobines (thank god he didn't, my poor wallet) but decided to replace the cables first as he could see a spark from them. The owner wasn't around, so I'll make my complaint wednesday.

    Anyhow on my first ride I noticed the following strangeness.

    - The bike is very restless at low RPM in first and second gear. It was a tiny bit like this before I brought the bike in, but now its a lot worse. Basically what happens is when I hold my throttle constant at speeds below 30-35km/h the bike holds in, then surges forwards, then holds in, then surges forward etc.. Makes slow traffic riding in the city extremely annoying.

    - When I'm downshifting and let it 'ride out' a bit in the lower gear the exhaust now audibly 'pops'. They are not loud bangs, but the exhaust never made these sounds before.

    - When in first gear and manoeuvring slowly (for example a slow turn) I can hear a single fairly low volumne 'tick' somewhere from the front half of the bike, and I feel a small vibration of the handlebar as if the front wheel was slightly loose. As far as I can tell this happens only in first gear, but that could be because I only notice it at very low speeds and I'm usually in first gear then.

    I'd love to hear any thoughts on what could be the cause or if its perhaps normal and not having these 'issues' before wasn't normal. They did put in the latest fuelmap, and replaced pretty much all the fluids inside the bike.
    There was also about 1.5 liter too much engine oil in the engine from the previous owner, so perhaps the engine is a bit 'upset' having become accustomed to too much oil pressure?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  16. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    You might think about taking to a different shop.

    Decades ago I purchased a new '79 Alfa Spider with an extended warranty. After 6 trips to the Dealer I realized that they could not repair the car and my warranty was worthless. Then I found a little independent shop. The Owner / mechanic made that Afla sing an Aria. For the next 6 years and 120,000 miles that the only mechanic who I'd take the Alfa to. The only reason I sold that car was because my family was growing and two child seats couldn't be strapped down on the parcel shelf.
     

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