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GTM ECU V7 & V9 Flash Tool

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GTM®, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Covered many times here and in the instructions, but happy to post it again (and again)... the bike must be as ready to start, meaning in neutral, in the run position, etc. EOBD is not available as the bike is not EOBD. Also covered in the instructions. ;)
     
  2. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Hey Todd, thanks for chiming in on a Saturday night. I promise I followed the instructions for reading the original file. Even printed them off and brought them down to the shop with me! Understood on the EOBD. Admittedly I did not get that far in the manual. I had stopped at the "Reading the original file" section.

    Anyway, I think I got it. I had selected "V7 Cafe Racer" from the menu. On the next page is a "V7 Racer" option. That one seems to be the ticket. Download is in process now.:)
     
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  3. Stradagene

    Stradagene Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Oh noooo!
    You did not really post that :p
     
  4. Chris Weber

    Chris Weber Just got it firing!

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    Boy I hope this has not already been covered, and I missed it.
    I just got the new GTMv2-NEW.mod file for my 2015 V7, Todd mentioned a couple things that also must be accomplished, and they flew over my head. Perhaps someone here can help.

    1) "Be sure to run the Throttle Position Command under the Diagnosis > My Bike tab. When flash is done." Is this obvious once I start ?

    2) Todd mentioned "the map is built around the evap can & tip valve delete. Can somebody help me on this?

    What becomes of the two hoses connected to the evap can. Does one get plugged and the other fuel tank vent just hangs there?

    And what does "tip valve delete" mean. Are theses done before I get started"


    Thanks a million.
    Chris
     
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  5. Mayakovski

    Mayakovski High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Remove Evap
    Read in detail, it's all there and all easy.

    SAS Block Off
    Not sure if this is the same thing as a "Tip Valve", but these were the two things Todd had me do on my V7 III before installing the new map.
     
  6. V7 Dreaming

    V7 Dreaming Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Tip valve should be a valve that is between the hose from fuel tank and the hose to the evap can.
     
  7. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Yep, this one is obvious when you are in the scan tool. I dont recall the exact verbiage but its something like "Throttle Position Reset." YOu select that one and the tool does the rest. it will confirm for you when it's done. That's the only indication it's complete.
     
  8. Larry Vance

    Larry Vance Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    So am I correct in that the refleash tool is designed to work only if the evap can & tip valve are deleted. If these steps are not taken is there any advantage to the reflash? Thanks
     
  9. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    No, it works well period. However, this is a air/fuel correction, and the evap canister (and SAS for ‘17+ models) are intake and exhaust leaks.
     
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  10. DETRoadster

    DETRoadster Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Larry, not sure of your level of technical aptitude so take no offense if you already understand this: There's a computer on your bike called an ECU (Electronic Control Unit). On that ECU is a piece of software that controls when your fuel injectors spray fuel into the engine, how much they spray into the engine, etc. based on a load of different conditions like engine RPM, load, throttle position, and more. The flash tool is simply the conduit that allows you to copy over that software with updated software that Todd supplies. The decisions Todd makes about what bits of that software to modify to give you better performance are done with the assumption that you have already removed the evap canister and tip valve. If you load Todd's program to your bike and fail to remove the evap canister and tip valve, the new software that Todd has supplied will not work to maximum effectiveness on your bike.

    While the evap canister and tip valve serve their purpose as part of the emissions system, it comes at the expense of ride-ability. That evap canister system effectively creates a vacuum leak in your intake system, which is not conducive to performance or smooth riding enjoyment. The removal of that system works hand in hand with Todd's ECU reprogramming. So if you've gone to the trouble and expense of purchasing the flash tool and loading up Todd's software modifications you really should take that last step and eliminate the evap canister and tip valve. It's about a 15 minute job.
     
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  11. Mayakovski

    Mayakovski High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Well said DETRoadster.
     
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  12. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Responding just to the bolded portion of the above, the answer is "yes."

    I had Todd's standard remap installed in Racer even before the EVAP valve jammed or I changed out the mufflers and removed the SAS. The bike started faster, warmed up more quickly, and had improved throttle response and mid-range with the standard re-map.

    I removed the EVAP when its valve jammed and the vacuum in the fuel tank went up to dangerous levels. The bike became nearly unridable in that event, stalling constantly and not idling or running well. Removing the EVAP solved that nonsense. It didn't change the running behavior of the engine at all comparing it to when the EVAP was working properly and the re-map was installed.

    I pulled the SAS after I'd switched out the OEM mufflers/catcons. Todd and I worked through to an updated ECU re-map that works beautifully with the Agostini mufflers I bought from him, but the engine would pop and bark too much on overrun and at odd moments of rapid throttle closure. The problem was that the SAS was dumping fresh air into a momentarily too rich exhaust environment, as it is supposed to do to keep a cat con burning hot, but without a cat con to absorb the burn and damp it, the mixture just hits the flash point and makes nasty sounds in the exhaust pipe. Removing the SAS eliminates that issue just about entirely; the SAS is specifically designed to do that for the cat con, and for nothing else.

    So to say again: there's great value in Todd's standard re-map, even with all the other OEM gear intact. But the EVAP system is a potential problem that can destroy a fuel pump and a fuel tank, and if you change to non-standard mufflers, you will most likely have the same issues with popping and barking on overrun due to the SAS. Removing both, fitting a good set of mufflers, and having a nicely tailored ECU map in place, the V7III engine performs way better than its specified 52-ish hp rating has any right to. :D
     
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  13. V7 Dreaming

    V7 Dreaming Tuned and Synch'ed

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    After installed Arrow 2-1 exhaust and reflash with Todd's re-map(plus sas and evap system remove). I feel my bike run smoother and pull harder.
    It's more fun like some sleeping lazy horses in my engine wake up and do their job.
     
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  14. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT di Razza Pura

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    Now it's time to enjoy.
     
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  15. dududuckling

    dududuckling Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Hi, where can I find the operating instructions for the Flash Tool? Is it online?

    I'm up till:

    1. Download and run the GT-PWG3.exe and plug in the GT-Rx Flash Tool

    2. Hook up GT-Rx Flash Tool to bike: Power cables to battery terminals, diagnostic cable to ECU, put the bike in Neutral, turn the ignition key to ON

    3. To read: TUNING > MOTO GUZZI > Hit (>) button > SELECT MODEL > Hit (>) > SELECT YEAR, ETC > Follow instruction for reading the OEM file > then what? Turn ignition OFF, disconnect?

    4. Upload file and send to Todd, wait until he gets back to you and... drag and drop to the Flash Tool on PC?

    5. Hook up GT-Rx Flash Tool to bike... does it auto-run? what else do you have to do?

    Thanks for the help!
     
  16. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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  17. misterwes31

    misterwes31 Just got it firing!

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    A very basic question as I'm just learning about the concept of mapping all together. Does re-mapping it change the HP or torque or anything else? I'm just trying to grasp what the improvements are and what the statistics that demonstrate them are. I think I understand fuel mapping and its concept, but not really grasping the result.
     
  18. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    To at least a first order approximation, "fuel mapping" is simply the electronic fuel injection equivalent of "jetting" when you're tuning a carburetor-equipped engine. Engines' power production is highly dependent upon the specific air-fuel mixture being delivered to the cylinder ... either too rich or too lean costs some power at a given rpm, throttle setting, and load, and can make an engine run too hot, too cool, affect throttle response, degrade efficiency, etc etc.

    So yes: proper fuel mapping permits an engine to start more easily, warm up more quickly, respond better through the rpm range, can fatten up the hp/torque produced, and all that. There are limits to how much can be gained through fuel mapping alone, of course, just like there are limits to what can be done with jetting carburetors alone because engine performance is a complex mix of other factors as well. But the difference between the stock, OEM engine map and a properly tailored custom engine map is immediately perceivable by a rider on the street or track, and is easily observable when you measure the engine performance on a dynamometer.
     
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  19. misterwes31

    misterwes31 Just got it firing!

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    Thank you for the reply! Makes perfect sense. 2 follow up questions:

    Is there dyno run info out there on how the Guzzitech reflash tool changes a V7 III?

    I see that with the tool, evaporator removal is recommended and assumed. Does this void the warranty of the bike? If so, is that something I should really be concerned about?
     
  20. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    I think Todd has some dyno charts on the site somewhere. I use my seat-of-the-pants dyno but it's hard to share the experience other then to tell of it: My bike has been stripped of EVAP and SAS, fitted with Agostini mufflers.

    The EVAP removal was first, because it almost damaged my fuel tank. Then, with the 'standard' custom map that was provided with the ECU Tool, starting and warm up was improved over stock, the midrange was fatter and cleaner with better response.

    After doing the mufflers, Todd worked on a customized map and nailed it ... same improved starting and warm up, even fatter midrange response, and the engine simply LOVES to rev.

    The residual problem I had was some popping and barking on deceleration, occasionally enough to be annoying, due to the SAS operation without cat-cons in the exhaust stream. Removing the SAS eliminated that problem.

    I've built and tuned a lot of engines in my day. When I say that "Todd's nailed the map", I mean it: it means that he's done a better job than I ever did with carbureted engines. And my engines always ran very nicely when I was done ... a point of some pride for me. :)

    Technically, depending on where you live and the applicable state and federal regulations on vehicle emissions, any modifications to the stock configuration of the engine in any vehicle are prohibited for street use, and a warranty violation if you read the warranty information provided. Whether this general rule is enforced with respect to warranty support depends on your relationship with the dealership and the dealership's take on what they consider to be a warrantable problem, and then how they report it to the distributor for reimbursement.

    (My local dealer doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about the modifications I've made, thus far, but I have only needed one warranty item—a bad OEM battery that they paid for. Didn't even blink when I had them do the first service.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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