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GTM ECU V7 & V9 Flash Tool

GTM®

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GT di Razza Pura
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Messages
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So am I correct in that the refleash tool is designed to work only if the evap can & tip valve are deleted. If these steps are not taken is there any advantage to the reflash? Thanks
No, it works well period. However, this is a air/fuel correction, and the evap canister (and SAS for ‘17+ models) are intake and exhaust leaks.
 

DETRoadster

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
72
Location
Seattle
So am I correct in that the reflash tool is designed to work only if the evap can & tip valve are deleted. If these steps are not taken is there any advantage to the reflash? Thanks

Larry, not sure of your level of technical aptitude so take no offense if you already understand this: There's a computer on your bike called an ECU (Electronic Control Unit). On that ECU is a piece of software that controls when your fuel injectors spray fuel into the engine, how much they spray into the engine, etc. based on a load of different conditions like engine RPM, load, throttle position, and more. The flash tool is simply the conduit that allows you to copy over that software with updated software that Todd supplies. The decisions Todd makes about what bits of that software to modify to give you better performance are done with the assumption that you have already removed the evap canister and tip valve. If you load Todd's program to your bike and fail to remove the evap canister and tip valve, the new software that Todd has supplied will not work to maximum effectiveness on your bike.

While the evap canister and tip valve serve their purpose as part of the emissions system, it comes at the expense of ride-ability. That evap canister system effectively creates a vacuum leak in your intake system, which is not conducive to performance or smooth riding enjoyment. The removal of that system works hand in hand with Todd's ECU reprogramming. So if you've gone to the trouble and expense of purchasing the flash tool and loading up Todd's software modifications you really should take that last step and eliminate the evap canister and tip valve. It's about a 15 minute job.
 

Godfrey

High Miler
GT Famiglia
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Oct 1, 2017
Messages
869
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
So am I correct in that the refleash tool is designed to work only if the evap can & tip valve are deleted. If these steps are not taken is there any advantage to the reflash? Thanks

Responding just to the bolded portion of the above, the answer is "yes."

I had Todd's standard remap installed in Racer even before the EVAP valve jammed or I changed out the mufflers and removed the SAS. The bike started faster, warmed up more quickly, and had improved throttle response and mid-range with the standard re-map.

I removed the EVAP when its valve jammed and the vacuum in the fuel tank went up to dangerous levels. The bike became nearly unridable in that event, stalling constantly and not idling or running well. Removing the EVAP solved that nonsense. It didn't change the running behavior of the engine at all comparing it to when the EVAP was working properly and the re-map was installed.

I pulled the SAS after I'd switched out the OEM mufflers/catcons. Todd and I worked through to an updated ECU re-map that works beautifully with the Agostini mufflers I bought from him, but the engine would pop and bark too much on overrun and at odd moments of rapid throttle closure. The problem was that the SAS was dumping fresh air into a momentarily too rich exhaust environment, as it is supposed to do to keep a cat con burning hot, but without a cat con to absorb the burn and damp it, the mixture just hits the flash point and makes nasty sounds in the exhaust pipe. Removing the SAS eliminates that issue just about entirely; the SAS is specifically designed to do that for the cat con, and for nothing else.

So to say again: there's great value in Todd's standard re-map, even with all the other OEM gear intact. But the EVAP system is a potential problem that can destroy a fuel pump and a fuel tank, and if you change to non-standard mufflers, you will most likely have the same issues with popping and barking on overrun due to the SAS. Removing both, fitting a good set of mufflers, and having a nicely tailored ECU map in place, the V7III engine performs way better than its specified 52-ish hp rating has any right to. :D
 

V7 Dreaming

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
47
Location
Thailand
After installed Arrow 2-1 exhaust and reflash with Todd's re-map(plus sas and evap system remove). I feel my bike run smoother and pull harder.
It's more fun like some sleeping lazy horses in my engine wake up and do their job.
 

dududuckling

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
120
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Hi All,

I would appreciate some basic help with reading my ECU.

I have Todd's Flash tool and each time I try to read and download the existing ECU info, ready for re-mapping, I keep getting the error message... "an error occurred while reading data from the ECU. Please try again." I try again but the same message appears each time.
Just before the error message the screen says "key on and confirm". I would assume this means turn on the ignition with the key, however, I absolutely did not want to try this as it is not described under the 'Operating Instructions' that came with the tool and it clearly states under 'First Use': "the bike should NEVER be running for any part of this process".

What does "Key on and confirm" mean? and, why can't the flash tool read my ECU???

View attachment 15894 View attachment 15895 View attachment 15896 View attachment 15897

Hi, where can I find the operating instructions for the Flash Tool? Is it online?

I'm up till:

1. Download and run the GT-PWG3.exe and plug in the GT-Rx Flash Tool

2. Hook up GT-Rx Flash Tool to bike: Power cables to battery terminals, diagnostic cable to ECU, put the bike in Neutral, turn the ignition key to ON

3. To read: TUNING > MOTO GUZZI > Hit (>) button > SELECT MODEL > Hit (>) > SELECT YEAR, ETC > Follow instruction for reading the OEM file > then what? Turn ignition OFF, disconnect?

4. Upload file and send to Todd, wait until he gets back to you and... drag and drop to the Flash Tool on PC?

5. Hook up GT-Rx Flash Tool to bike... does it auto-run? what else do you have to do?

Thanks for the help!
 

misterwes31

Just got it firing!
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
10
Location
PNW
A very basic question as I'm just learning about the concept of mapping all together. Does re-mapping it change the HP or torque or anything else? I'm just trying to grasp what the improvements are and what the statistics that demonstrate them are. I think I understand fuel mapping and its concept, but not really grasping the result.
 

Godfrey

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
869
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
To at least a first order approximation, "fuel mapping" is simply the electronic fuel injection equivalent of "jetting" when you're tuning a carburetor-equipped engine. Engines' power production is highly dependent upon the specific air-fuel mixture being delivered to the cylinder ... either too rich or too lean costs some power at a given rpm, throttle setting, and load, and can make an engine run too hot, too cool, affect throttle response, degrade efficiency, etc etc.

So yes: proper fuel mapping permits an engine to start more easily, warm up more quickly, respond better through the rpm range, can fatten up the hp/torque produced, and all that. There are limits to how much can be gained through fuel mapping alone, of course, just like there are limits to what can be done with jetting carburetors alone because engine performance is a complex mix of other factors as well. But the difference between the stock, OEM engine map and a properly tailored custom engine map is immediately perceivable by a rider on the street or track, and is easily observable when you measure the engine performance on a dynamometer.
 

misterwes31

Just got it firing!
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
10
Location
PNW
To at least a first order approximation, "fuel mapping" is simply the electronic fuel injection equivalent of "jetting" when you're tuning a carburetor-equipped engine. Engines' power production is highly dependent upon the specific air-fuel mixture being delivered to the cylinder ... either too rich or too lean costs some power at a given rpm, throttle setting, and load, and can make an engine run too hot, too cool, affect throttle response, degrade efficiency, etc etc.

So yes: proper fuel mapping permits an engine to start more easily, warm up more quickly, respond better through the rpm range, can fatten up the hp/torque produced, and all that. There are limits to how much can be gained through fuel mapping alone, of course, just like there are limits to what can be done with jetting carburetors alone because engine performance is a complex mix of other factors as well. But the difference between the stock, OEM engine map and a properly tailored custom engine map is immediately perceivable by a rider on the street or track, and is easily observable when you measure the engine performance on a dynamometer.
Thank you for the reply! Makes perfect sense. 2 follow up questions:

Is there dyno run info out there on how the Guzzitech reflash tool changes a V7 III?

I see that with the tool, evaporator removal is recommended and assumed. Does this void the warranty of the bike? If so, is that something I should really be concerned about?
 

Godfrey

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
869
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
I think Todd has some dyno charts on the site somewhere. I use my seat-of-the-pants dyno but it's hard to share the experience other then to tell of it: My bike has been stripped of EVAP and SAS, fitted with Agostini mufflers.

The EVAP removal was first, because it almost damaged my fuel tank. Then, with the 'standard' custom map that was provided with the ECU Tool, starting and warm up was improved over stock, the midrange was fatter and cleaner with better response.

After doing the mufflers, Todd worked on a customized map and nailed it ... same improved starting and warm up, even fatter midrange response, and the engine simply LOVES to rev.

The residual problem I had was some popping and barking on deceleration, occasionally enough to be annoying, due to the SAS operation without cat-cons in the exhaust stream. Removing the SAS eliminated that problem.

I've built and tuned a lot of engines in my day. When I say that "Todd's nailed the map", I mean it: it means that he's done a better job than I ever did with carbureted engines. And my engines always ran very nicely when I was done ... a point of some pride for me. :)

Technically, depending on where you live and the applicable state and federal regulations on vehicle emissions, any modifications to the stock configuration of the engine in any vehicle are prohibited for street use, and a warranty violation if you read the warranty information provided. Whether this general rule is enforced with respect to warranty support depends on your relationship with the dealership and the dealership's take on what they consider to be a warrantable problem, and then how they report it to the distributor for reimbursement.

(My local dealer doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about the modifications I've made, thus far, but I have only needed one warranty item—a bad OEM battery that they paid for. Didn't even blink when I had them do the first service.)
 
Last edited:

misterwes31

Just got it firing!
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
10
Location
PNW
I think Todd has some dyno charts on the site somewhere. I use my seat-of-the-pants dyno but it's hard to share the experience other then to tell of it: My bike has been stripped of EVAP and SAS, fitted with Agostini mufflers.

The EVAP removal was first, because it almost damaged my fuel tank. Then, with the 'standard' custom map that was provided with the ECU Tool, starting and warm up was improved over stock, the midrange was fatter and cleaner with better response.

After doing the mufflers, Todd worked on a customized map and nailed it ... same improved starting and warm up, even fatter midrange response, and the engine simply LOVES to rev.

The residual problem I had was some popping and barking on deceleration, occasionally enough to be annoying, due to the SAS operation without cat-cons in the exhaust stream. Removing the SAS eliminated that problem.

I've built and tuned a lot of engines in my day. When I say that "Todd's nailed the map", I mean it: it means that he's done a better job than I ever did with carbureted engines.

Technically, depending on where you live and the applicable state and federal regulations on vehicle emissions, any modifications to the stock configuration of the engine in any vehicle are prohibited for street use, and a warranty violation if you read the warranty information provided. Whether this general rule is enforced with respect to warranty support depends on your relationship with the dealership and the dealership's take on what they consider to be a warrantable problem, and then how they report it to the distributor for reimbursement.

(My local dealer doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about the modifications I've made, thus far, but I have only needed one warranty item—a bad OEM battery that they paid for. Didn't even blink when I had them do the first service.)
This is very very helpful. thank you for the information. I have just one last question: I read your post on another thread about evap removal - also helpful. And I understand the evap was causing issues of creating a vacuum in the gas tank. My question is what is the evap meant to do and why is vacuum being created? And what is theconsequence of such vacuum when riding?
 

dududuckling

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
120
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Hi,

I am planning to flash the ECU tomorrow, followed by SAS and Evap removal following weeks. It is my first ECU flash and the bike is my only transportation to work. I have read all 216 posts on ECU flash and manual, but am still quite nervous and would like to double check the steps:

To read:

1. Install GT-PWG3.exe on PC, connect FT to PC, update the software in the FT, disconnect from PC
2. Connect battery (I run Antigravity ATX-12) to battery tender hooked to wall outlet to sustain charge
3. Turn the key to ON, red ignition safety switch to ON, gear in N (Do not start the bike!)
4. Connect red/black alligator clips from FT to battery, then OBD cable from FT to ECU
5. Device powered up, tap on Tuning > Follow on-screen instruction > Do you want to start read operation? Y
6. Disconnect FT from bike, connect FT to PC, upload *.usr file from FT to PC, email Todd *.usr file, disconnect from PC

To write:

7. Connect FT to PC, download revised .usr file from PC to FT via GT-PWG3.exe, disconnect from PC
8. Connect battery to battery tender
9. Turn the key to ON, red ignition safety switch to ON, gear in N (Do not start the bike!)
10. Connect red/black alligator clips from FT to battery, then OBD cable from FT to ECU
11. Device powered up, tap on Tuning > Follow on-screen instruction
12. Diagnosis > My Bike > Throttle Position Reset
13. Disconnect FT from bike, ready to go

Is that it?

Any re-learning throttle position or is that part of the on-screen instructions?

Do I need to connect the battery tender, or would the battery have enough juice to power this little device for 20 minutes?

Thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:

V7 Dreaming

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
47
Location
Thailand
Last step after write new map is reset throttle position in diagnosic/my bike tab.
Yesterday I rewrite 3 map to test O2 sensor function. Battery still has enough power to done the job.
 

dududuckling

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
120
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Last step after write new map is reset throttle position in diagnosic/my bike tab.
Yesterday I rewrite 3 map to test O2 sensor function. Battery still has enough power to done the job.

Edited.

I am unclear about Reset Throttle Position since it is not written in the FT manual.

Is it easily found on the menu? And after that I can disconnect FT from the bike?

Thanks!

Nice yellow Guzzi!
 

V7 Dreaming

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
47
Location
Thailand
Edited.

I am unclear about Reset Throttle Position since it is not written in the FT manual.

Is it easily found on the menu? And after that I can disconnect FT from the bike?

Thanks!

Nice yellow Guzzi!

Yes. It is very easy to find it. Press on Diagnostic icon on lower left and then press on My bike icon on lower right and then select throtle position reset in the middle. (If I remember the step right.)

When I saw your post, sometime I confuse it's my post haha. We have the same color bike.
 
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