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GTM Fueling Info

GTM®

Administrator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
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Messages
14,708
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Malibu
A fact to start: No stock Guzzi ECU/F.I. system is fully adaptive, nor can 99% of the dealers do anything to help as they are mostly factory map/warranty restricted. If you modified your bike, it will NOT adapt. Even completely stock, fuel mapping is set up for emissions, not the health and longevity of your motor. They will run poorly and hot. This is just a simple fact of an internal combustion engines running in modern times. In our decades of fueling experience, proper air/fuel revisions can significantly reduce operating temps, smooth engine vibration, allow the throttle response to be stellar, and more often then not, increase low and mid-range power.

To start, your bike is expected to be in top/recent Service/Tune. Our maps are built based on spec engine settings, including Euro valve lash check/set. This is PARAMOUNT to good running. The stock system is capable of handling elevation and temp changes using the stock sensors once a good base map is established if you are strictly relying on the ECU. Dynojet's dynamic PC/AutoTune system is light-years better.

Warranty: ANY modifications to your bike will technically void the warranty. It is up to your dealer... Call them and ask using logic and the facts above.

We will not discuss any other means of ECU flashing here, do not ask or post on it. We have been Guzzi-focused with this since 2001. You get what you pay for... Click on the STORE tab above or see links below.

GTM thanks Dynojet (and all of those who purchased here from us) to bring the Power Commander for each model to fruition. The posts below chronicle the journey that was taken for nearly 2 years starting in 2009. Feel free to contact me with any questions via direct e-mail via the CONTACT tab above. Todd (Technical Advisor to Dynojet for all things Guzzi, and Certified Power Commander & Tuning Link Tech)


GT makes this technology available to fit ALL '00~current Guzzi.
#1 below is Step/Stage I of the full kit; It provides many improvements for ALL fueling: Performance, detonation and 02-sensor input elimination. It works very well stand-alone. It is required to give full fueling access to the PC-V/AT noted as #2 below.
For Big Block CARC Guzzi (5AM) ECUs, 2009-2020 V7 & V9s (15RC & MIU) including '99+ Cal/Cal Vintage, V11 Sports, Breva 750 & '09-12 V7C. See our online Store HERE


*For Non-public roadway use ONLY*

1. GTM® ECU Re-flash Programmer - $: Static revisions, which include stock 02-sensor input delete, revised fueling and timing (for performance, cold start and pre-ignition/detonation/pinging) for any modifications you have done to your bike. Any bolt-on modification would require a new map update, which is free for one year, small cost afterwards. This can be run stand-alone for drastically better running over stock. Not perfect, but very good. This provides full fueling access to the PC-V/AT (below). Purchase info >V7/9 HERE< >BIG BLOCKS HERE< **THIS CANNOT BE USED STAND ALONE ON THE 1400 OR V85TT - SEE LINKS BELOW**

2. GTM® Re-Flash, PC-V & AutoTune $$ (see AutoTune note below): Fully dynamic fueling revision for each second the engine is running, from idle to redline, with the power of the (supplied wide-band Bosch 02-sensor w/) AutoTune module coupled with the PC-V (mandatory). User adjustable fueling, and no need to visit the dyno for custom mapping. Any new modifications to the bike can be automatically corrected by AutoTune with a few keystrokes (OK, and often a little input from me.).
Purchase info >CLICK HERE AT-200< >CLICK HERE AT-300<
*AutoTune AT-200 (single sensor) or AT-300 (dual sensor models) is a piggyback module to PC-V (only) above that provides real-time fueling changes, on-the-fly, as you ride... using a user-set Air Fuel Ratio (AFR). The AutoTune unit plugs into the PC-V module (ONLY) and allows you to pick/change your AFR, and your bike will auto-adjust, real-time, as you ride. Allows you to build/store a map for *your* bike by a simple click of the software, and store it on the PC-V... which then AutoTune will then use as a baseline to correct from.

Instead of talking about POWER numbers, posted below are the Air/Fuel ratio graphs of % throttling.

The flatter the line, the more crisp the throttle response.

The 20% graph below is as delivered, OEM fueling. Red trace is as delivered, blue lines in the bottom two graphs (40% & 100% throttle) are from a PC corrected fueling on a Norge 1200.

Norge20 AFR

Norge40 AFR

Norge100 AFR
 

double.d

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
305
Location
BRISBANE AUSTRALIA
So, correct me if i'm wrong please.
1. To get the Griso running at optimum fueling of 13.2 - 13.6 as per the last 2 graphs i am going to have to buy both the PCV and the ECU unit ?

2. The ECU is a set non adjustable unit with the 13.2 - 13.6 set for below 40% throttle.

3. The PCV is used to set the desired fueling 13.2 - 13.6 above 40% throttle and would enable me to build a power map and cruise map, so to speak ?

4. Will this stuff be redundant when Dynojet release it's 02 controler.

5. Are these mod/s performance enhancing ( more grunt, more go), or are they just to stop pinging and deceleration popping and general rough running ?

I am after more grunt and go. I am happy with the way my Griso runs so i don't want to spend $1000 bucks on improved running.
 

GTM®

Administrator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
14,708
Location
Malibu
double.d wrote:
So, correct me if i'm wrong please.
1. To get the Griso running at optimum fueling of 13.2 - 13.6 as per the last 2 graphs i am going to have to buy both the PCV and the ECU unit ?
2. The ECU is a set non adjustable unit with the 13.2 - 13.6 set for below 40% throttle.
3. The PCV is used to set the desired fueling 13.2 - 13.6 above 40% throttle and would enable me to build a power map and cruise ap, so to speak ?
4. Will this stuff be redundant when Dynojet release it's 02-controller.
5. Are these mod/s performance enhancing ( more grunt, more go), or are they just to stop pinging and deceleration popping and general rough running ?
I am after more grunt and go. I am happy with the way my Griso runs so i don't want to spend $1000 bucks on improved running.
1. For fueling adjustments below 40% throttle, yes you will.
2. Incorrect.
3. Correct... though you will need a toggle switch to do so, and without the AutoTune module, you would want to build these maps on a dyno or data-logging wideband A/F gauge that records throttle position and RPM.
4. DJ's 02-controller will eliminate the need for the ECU swap, however I will be revising the timing and a few other parameters (altitude compensation and warm up) on the OEM ECU. The PC-V will only allow revisions from 40% throttle and up with the DJ 02-controller. Edit: Also, it is hard to say when a 02-controller might be released. It might be another year.
5. Performance... the PC is not a "more power" device. It is a air/fuel correction device. I suggest you read THIS. You will need to modify the intake/exhaust (or more, i.e. porting/flow work) to gain performance, but you will need a PC-V (or eq.) to correct the fueling. I can tell you that richening the mixture increases power on average of 7% (or more) on a stock machine. Have you ever ridden a custom mapped PCIII Guzzi? If not, I highly advise finding one to ride... and then ask your closing statement again.
 

guzzi jon

High Miler
GT Contributor
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
710
Location
Anaheim Hills, CA
As for hp gains, my fine running 02 Lemans with x-over and mistrals went from 77 bhp to 85 bhp at the rear wheel, and got better mileage. but more important, it ran super sweet, actually perfect.... best running guzzi I ever rode.... a PC properly mapped guzzi is like a new machine, ride one, you'll get the bits...
 

klaas123

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
165
Location
The Netherlands
RacerX wrote:
You can buy the PC-V & AutoTune now for use above 40% throttling. Below 40% will require a GT-Rx ECU swap until Dynojet completes their 02-controller development at a later date.

I don't see that happening anytime soon (if ever) without chainging the ECU because when you richen up the closed loop portion by reducing the O2 sensor output the service light comes on.
That's my experience with the Fat Duc anyway, you can't fool the ECU so it seems.
So I'm going the GT-Rx ECU swap route now.
 

Steak

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
106
Location
Seattle
Todd,

If I am correct in assuming that the potentially forthcoming DJ O² gizmo will be fully compatible with this version of the PC-V, then yes. I am in.
 

roadscum

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
335
Location
SW Florida
Todd, is the Auto Tune required for for optimium performance above 40% throttle? I understand that Auto Tune will allow multiple maps but that does not interest me.
I guest the question is......... what advantage is gained by installing the PV-V without the Auto Tune?

Regards, Paul
 

GTM®

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GT di Razza Pura
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Messages
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roadscum wrote:
Todd, is the Auto Tune required for for optimium performance above 40% throttle? I guest the question is......... what advantage is gained by installing the PV-V without the Auto Tune?
Paul, under seperate thread I mentioned that I will not be able to build/offer maps for every bike/mod combo. That said, if you purchase a PC-V, you can have a local Dynojet "Tuning Link" dyno shop build you a map, or you can use the AutoTune. Cost to do this is in favor of the AutoTune @$249. AutoTune offers full/real-time adjustments as you ride, all of the time... it's like having a new ECU that is user-adjustable for fueling.

What I will try to do, is to build maps using AutoTune for any bikes I can get my hands on... however I cannot guarantee this in any timely fashion.
 

GTM®

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GT di Razza Pura
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guzzi jon wrote:
The AFR looks sweet, what kind of bhp or torque gains did the dyno show, particularly in the mid range?
Thanks,
4-5 HP & torque in the mid (3~4k rpm).

So how many can I put you down for?
 

sn0winSaskatoon

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Saskatoon, Canada
Todd, I think I'm in, although as I'm a carburettor-loving EFI n00b I'll probably screw the whole thing up many times before getting it straight. I will pm you to arrange to pay the deposit. The loonie is back up to 0.90 US$ so I'm stalling to save more cash as your dollar inevitably declines against ours. :lol: (on the other hand our temperatures will soon be declining to much lower than yours so you get the last laugh anyway, but at least it's 30 degrees in Saskatchewan today!).

Just so I'm clear. For 600 US$ I get the PCV and the autotune - which will improve fueling above 40% throttle but do nothing below 40%. And it's reasonably "plug & play" if all I want is improved A/F. Am I right? Or I can play with it and build one or more maps if I am so inclined to invest the time and energy and can figure out how to do so.

I f I were to also do the ECU swap, is the autotune unit still required? And then I need a second port in the exhaust for an additional O2 sensor (or does the factory sensor go bye-bye). Did your estimated price of <1000 US$ include the PCV, autotune plus the ECU swap? Maybe I'm just slow or confused, well definitely the latter.

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I'm reading and learning about EFI and this is a fun new hobby and time-sink and $-sink but of course some of you lot have been up to this for years... but it sure makes the carbs on my KTM seem real simple...

One last question about the darn O2 sensors - re: the factory lambda sensor - can I easily tell if it's working properly using the VDSTS? I thought I remembered seeing it when I hooked it up just after you sent it to me, but after I bolted on the new mistral pipe to your GT crossover, my fuel consumption went through the roof (at least according to the onboard indicator). So I hooked up VDSTS yesterday and couldn't immediately figure out where to find the lambda sensor... perhaps I'm just stupid... seems to me I might have damaged it during installing the crossover, and the cable is pretty short... on the other hand, if it were malfunctioning I should get an error code...

sorry if these are dumb questions,

Ian
 

GTM®

Administrator
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GT di Razza Pura
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sn0winSaskatoon wrote:
Todd, I think I'm in, although as I'm a carburettor-loving EFI n00b I'll probably screw the whole thing up many times before getting it straight. I will pm you to arrange to pay the deposit. The loonie is back up to 0.90 US$ so I'm stalling to save more cash as your dollar inevitably declines against ours. :lol: (on the other hand our temperatures will soon be declining to much lower than yours so you get the last laugh anyway, but at least it's 30 degrees in Saskatchewan today!).
Heh, you got it, and 30C?. You will learn to LOVE F.I. - I have. I prefer never to touch carbs again if I can help it. A laptop and mouse click is much easier and cleaner.
No dumb questions... actually I've had others ask too, so;

Just so I'm clear. For 600 US$ I get the PCV and the autotune - which will improve fueling above 40% throttle but do nothing below 40%. And it's reasonably "plug & play" if all I want is improved A/F. Am I right? Or I can play with it and build one or more maps if I am so inclined to invest the time and energy and can figure out how to do so.
Correct, correct and correct. I can also set it up that we can share maps here, however *NOTHING* will be like using AutoTune on your/each bike.

If I were to also do the ECU swap, is the autotune unit still required? And then I need a second port in the exhaust for an additional O2 sensor (or does the factory sensor go bye-bye). Did your estimated price of <1000 US$ include the PCV, autotune plus the ECU swap? Maybe I'm just slow or confused, well definitely the latter.
Yes if you want to real-time "AutoTune" as you ride. The 1000 US$ does not include the AutoTune... close to 1200 USD$ for everything. I will try to hold costs down, but this is a direct result of how many ECU exchange orders I get. It is a HUGE expense to me for the hardware/software to do this, and I'd like to recover a good chunk of my money on this equipment, on this 50 unit PC-V run.
With the ECU swap, you will get FULL access to the fueling tables, as well as timing and other corrections I'll be doing on the ECU.

One last question about the darn O2 sensors - re: the factory lambda sensor - can I easily tell if it's working properly using the VDSTS?
Let's go to the VDST thread for this... see you there.

Other/similar questions I've been asked offline/direct e-mail:

If I have the PC-V and the AutoTune, then I can set a desired air/fuel ratio and do not need a specific map. Yes?
Correct.

I do not have a good feel for when I am operating at or above 40% throttle. I would expect that I am when I am accelerating from a stop or merging with traffic, but what about highway cruising in 5th gear at 4,000 - 5,000 rpm?
General cruise on the highway is 20-40% throttle depending on winds. I've seen up to mid-50's~60% throttle with strong headwinds. You'll be largely in the 40+ range when "sport" riding... that and any brisk acceleration puts you strongly in the 60+ percentile. This has been documented on my bikes with the DJ LCD screen that shows real-time throttle position and real-time Air/Fuel Ratio. The LCD will plug into the PC-V as well for the true techies.
 

Mike.C

High Miler
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
986
Location
Brisbane
GTM wrote:
Mike.C, if you could, re-post our conversation here last week, it would be much appreciated.

Sorry mate, it went the way of the DODO when the board crashed last week, unless you can resurrect the PM data.

If I can remember it, i'll re-type it tonight in an edit here.
 
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