guess that noise....

[GuzziMoto]

Sorry for stating the obvious, but that is over-cooled.
Oil temps that low could easily cause issues with water build up in your oil.
I hope you have better luck with your oil temps after blocking off the cooler.

 

[John Warner]

Agreed.
As it copes easily with much hotter Climates, it's no surprise that it runs cool here, given the lack of any controlling element in the system (Thermostat).

I've been thinking recently, if blanking off the Cooler still isn't enough, what's next?
Packing foam around the Sump?

 

[GuzziMoto]

I think I have already mentioned my friend with a Ducati Paso, he used foam in the ducts to get temps up.
If more is needed perhaps some sort of deflectors to divert air from the heads, put more of that heat into the oil. But I doubt it will come to that. That is a pretty big oil cooler and I suspect blocking it off will provide a respectable increase in oil temps.

 

[John Warner]

Here's hoping!
Have I read it correctly, that the later models have an even larger Cooler?

 

[WayneOrwig]

25min ride into work tonight.
Ambient temp of 11-12°C
Mostly Motorway, 75-80mph, Oil Temp reached 91°C after approx 10mins, and sat there most of the time.
Peaked at 94° sat at lights after a bit of 'spirited' use, then quickly dropped off again once moving.

Where is your probe again?

If it is AFTER the cooler, before getting to the head, those numbers may not be too bad.
If that is the head, I would have expected higher.
If that is the sump, that may be good for the oil life in general, but it will probably never 'cook' out the moisture.

I used to ride a California 1100 to work on the highway at fairly high speeds, for about 15 miles. At freezing temperatures, the oil temperature dipstick never got over 80C. Needless to say, the valve covers would fill with brown goo, and the sump would accumulate water.

 

[WayneOrwig]

Here's hoping!
Have I read it correctly, that the later models have an even larger Cooler?

Yes. Needed to keep the NO2 emissions down. It may also be required for exhaust valve life in really poor conditions. But that means it is over cooled the other 99% of the time. A thermostat for the oil cooler surely can't cost THAT much.

 

[John Warner]

Sensor is in the large Banjo Bolt in the feed line to the Cooler, so Oil is straight from the Sump (through secondary Pump).

 

[John Warner]

My Oil Temp gauge is kaput.
12V reaching the PCB, display still dead.
I guess it wasn't designed with the 'vibey' Stelvios in mind!

No worries though, only a cheapy, didn't expect it to last really.

Just ordered one of these to replace it . . .

http://www.trailtechproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Temperature.html

 

[John Warner]

Fitted the new Gauge this morning.

Just got back from a 45minute Ride-around locally, 50mph tops, bit of stop-start Traffic.
Hit a high of 112°C while Riding, 117° sitting at Lights/Junctions.
Rocker Covers too hot to hold Hand on for more than a couple of seconds.
Cooler is fully covered at the moment, will tweak that if Temps rise to the high 120s or thereabouts.

 

[GuzziMoto]

That sounds much better.
Let us know if the mayo comes back. I would think this would do a good job of keeping the moisture out of the oil.
I know the person who originally proposed the idea that the 8 valve motor is over-cooled, and that it is leading to failures due to moisture contaminating the oil, has changed his tune. But I still think there may be something to that.
Those temps sound good to me. It is too bad Guzzi did not put a thermostat in the 8 valver.

 

[John Warner]

Whether it's the cause, or part of it, or has nothing to do with it, I'm happier with the Oil at these temps.

My Breather Fittings came yesterday, so I'll whip the Covers off to fit them, and check for 'mayo'.
About time I checked the Valve Clearances too, although they're nice and quiet currently . . .

Riding into work last night, mostly Motorway, 80mph average, 7°C Air Temp, Oil temp sat at 108°C or thereabouts, rising as before to around 117° when sitting at Lights/Junctions.
Sender is still in the Cooler feed-line Banjo Bolt.
Might move it to the Sump Plug at the next service.

Ride home this morning, same mix of Urban-Motorway-Urban, 7°C still, but raining fairly steadily.
Never got above 85° on the M/way doing 85-90mph (0440, so nice and quiet!), crept up to 95° the three miles through Town from M/way to Home, then went up to 105° sitting idling for two mins once I got home.

Once we hit Winter proper here, I might look at more insulation on the Cooler, or maybe some on the Sump as well, depending on what the Gauge shows.

 

[Chadlebowski]

Was adjusting the valve clearances the other day as they were all slightly large... Bike has now covered about 22,000mi, sometimes noisier than other times, but still running!

Bit of an obvious newby question - the bolt that is tightened to close the valve clearances: surely that will only ever be able to be turned so many times. i.e has a certain lifespan of x number of valve clearance checks (assuming they always need closing)

The reason I ask is that one of the RH valves was pretty much at short limit of the screw, that is to say the thread is just about all the way to the top of the locking-nut

 

[Kevin.NZ]

It could be that the hardening on the screw has gone, check its length against a good one. That screw will outlast the bike as the adjustment will only be a fraction of a turn when you come to set the clearances. Make sure the rocker shaft is secure in its housing and that there is no wear there.

 

[canuck1969]

Rarely have I heard of that happening (if at all). Usually an indication that your tappets are worn (or cams) and your approaching the maximum adjustment on the screw.

Seeing that you still have flat tappets (don't recall you changing them to roller) it may be time to take the plung and get the roller conversion. If there is indeed that much wear, the kit should be covered. Will just need to take it apart to verify.

 

[John Warner]

Adjusting Screw and Nut are hardened, they won't 'wear' as such, and you'd have to put a hell of a Torque through them to strip the thread.
As Canuck says, it's more likely that the Tappet has worn (DLC coating goes, then the face starts to wear rapidly).
With the Engine set at TDC on that side, look at the tops of the two Cam Followers, they should be level.
If one is wearing, it'll sit lower in the CamBox.


If it is a worn Follower, don't put off sorting it out, as the wear particles suspended and carried around in the Oil can f**k up other parts in the Engine (Crank Bearings, Mains, etc).

Hope for your sake it's not too bad . . .

 

[canuck1969]

Actually John, those nuts are easy to strip. Ask the service guy who did the 1st service on my bike (and the last time it ever saw a dealer again). He actually stripped two of them. The first one he did and replaced it at the time, the second one I found 3 months later when I went to check the valves again. Bought spares, but I have yet to strip one after several adjustments. They don't need a huge torque to tighten, but they will strip.

Still not sold on the DLC particles causing harm to other parts of the bike. From what I have heard and seen in pictures, there was one suspected main bearing failure. The cause being the DLC coating was all based on conjecture. Kind of like tappet failures were caused by oil and all owners with tappet failure that used the wrong oil were stupid. That statement was found to not be true.

The DLC starts to wear almost immediately as people that have inspected their bikes after as little as 2500 miles have had wear. Many have gone several thousand or 10's of thousand miles before changing to rollers and have had no damage. Mine included. Changed out to rollers at 50,000KM and the wear was extensive on the coating (although the bike ran and sounded great). That coating came off years before and the bike was, and still is perfectly fine.

Just because one person makes a unfounded statement, it has started a wide spread panic. Just ride the damn thing and stop spreading fear where there is no substantial data to support it. And by substantial, I mean more than 1 unverified case in a few thousand bikes).

Correlation does not imply causation.........

Show me even 3 more bikes that failed as a direct cause of DLC coating in the engine and I may be sold, but don't see it happening.

As always, just my two cents and not directed to any specific individuals.

 

[John Warner]

Just erring on the side of caution really, I also am not convinced that secondary damage is likely, but I also think it's not impossible.

 

[GuzziMoto]

If the particles wear off and become suspended in the oil, wouldn't they get filtered out by the oil filter? The oil that feeds the bearings and what-not goes through the oil filter first, does it not? I could see it causing issues with the oil pump, but beyond that, the oil is filtered.
Guzzi is not the only manufacturer out there using DLC coatings. While there is debate on how useful they are in an internal combustion engine I doubt that the wear particles are as big a hazard as they are being made out to be.

That said, odd wear resulting in serious adjustment of your valve adjusters does indicate something you need to look at in greater depth.

 

[John Warner]

The particles would be much smaller (I'd imagine) than the Filter could trap, given how relatively slowly the small amount of material is removed.
Hard material from the Followers could conceivably become embedded in the (relatively) soft Bearing Shells, but as you say, it's probably not that likely.

 

[WayneOrwig]

If the particles wear off and become suspended in the oil, wouldn't they get filtered out by the oil filter? The oil that feeds the bearings and what-not goes through the oil filter first, does it not? I could see it causing issues with the oil pump, but beyond that, the oil is filtered.

The filter has a bypass system.
On cold startup, they filter may go into bypass mode with thick oil. That was common on older dino oil. Should be less likely with the 10-60 synthetic we now run, but still, a worry. And once the DLC is gone, you are spitting larger chunks of metal tappet through the pump.

When I rollerized mine, I had a bit of a knocking noise when the oil got really hot. I replaced the rod bearings, and the noise went away. The bearings and crank measured perfectly, but there was pitting on the bearings, and a 'black' coating on them that wiped off easily.