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GTM Fueling Info

GTM®

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GT di Razza Pura
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A fact to start: No stock Guzzi ECU/F.I. system is fully adaptive, nor can 99% of the dealers do anything to help as they are mostly factory map/warranty restricted. If you modified your bike, it will NOT adapt. Even completely stock, fuel mapping is set up for emissions, not the health and longevity of your motor. They will run poorly and hot. This is just a simple fact of an internal combustion engines running in modern times. In our decades of fueling experience, proper air/fuel revisions can significantly reduce operating temps, smooth engine vibration, allow the throttle response to be stellar, and more often then not, increase low and mid-range power.

To start, your bike is expected to be in top/recent Service/Tune. Our maps are built based on spec engine settings, including Euro valve lash check/set. This is PARAMOUNT to good running. The stock system is capable of handling elevation and temp changes using the stock sensors once a good base map is established if you are strictly relying on the ECU. Dynojet's dynamic PC/AutoTune system is light-years better.

Warranty: ANY modifications to your bike will technically void the warranty. It is up to your dealer... Call them and ask using logic and the facts above.

We will not discuss any other means of ECU flashing here, do not ask or post on it. We have been Guzzi-focused with this since 2001. You get what you pay for... Click on the STORE tab above or see links below.

GTM thanks Dynojet (and all of those who purchased here from us) to bring the Power Commander for each model to fruition. The posts below chronicle the journey that was taken for nearly 2 years starting in 2006. Feel free to contact me with any questions via direct e-mail via the CONTACT tab above. Todd (Technical Advisor to Dynojet for all things Guzzi, and Certified Power Commander & Tuning Link Tech)


GT makes this technology available to fit ALL '00~current Guzzi.
#1 below is Step/Stage I of the full kit; It provides many improvements for ALL fueling: Performance, detonation and 02-sensor input elimination. It works very well stand-alone. It is required to give full fueling access to the PC-V/AT noted as #2 below.
For Big Block CARC Guzzi (5AM) ECUs, 2009-2020 V7 & V9s (15RC & MIU) including '99+ Cal/Cal Vintage, V11 Sports, Breva 750 & '09-12 V7C. See our online Store HERE


*For Non-public roadway use ONLY*

1. GTM® ECU Re-flash Programmer - $: Static revisions, which include stock 02-sensor input delete, revised fueling and timing (for performance, cold start and pre-ignition/detonation/pinging) for any modifications you have done to your bike. Any bolt-on modification would require a new map update, which is free for one year, small cost afterwards. This can be run stand-alone for drastically better running over stock. Not perfect, but very good. This provides full fueling access to the PC-V/AT (below). Purchase info >V7/9 HERE< >BIG BLOCKS HERE< **THIS CANNOT BE USED STAND ALONE ON THE 1400 OR V85TT - SEE LINKS BELOW**

2. GTM® Re-Flash, PC-V & AutoTune $$ (see AutoTune note below): Fully dynamic fueling revision for each second the engine is running, from idle to redline, with the power of the (supplied wide-band Bosch 02-sensor w/) AutoTune module coupled with the PC-V (mandatory). User adjustable fueling, and no need to visit the dyno for custom mapping. Any new modifications to the bike can be automatically corrected by AutoTune with a few keystrokes (OK, and often a little input from me.).
Purchase info >CLICK HERE AT-200< >CLICK HERE AT-300<
*AutoTune AT-200 (single sensor) or AT-300 (dual sensor models) is a piggyback module to PC-V (only) above that provides real-time fueling changes, on-the-fly, as you ride... using a user-set Air Fuel Ratio (AFR). The AutoTune unit plugs into the PC-V module (ONLY) and allows you to pick/change your AFR, and your bike will auto-adjust, real-time, as you ride. Allows you to build/store a map for *your* bike by a simple click of the software, and store it on the PC-V... which then AutoTune will then use as a baseline to correct from. Literally the MOST important addition and superior and most important part of the PC you can do. Allows INSTANT real-time corrections for however your bike is/has aged, fuels, etc.

Instead of talking about POWER numbers, posted below are the Air/Fuel ratio graphs of % throttling.

The flatter the line, the more crisp the throttle response.

The 20% graph below is as delivered, OEM fueling. Red trace is as delivered, blue lines in the bottom two graphs (40% & 100% throttle) are from a PC corrected fueling on a Norge 1200.

Norge20 AFR

Norge40 AFR

Norge100 AFR
 
As for hp gains, my fine running 02 Lemans with x-over and mistrals went from 77 bhp to 85 bhp at the rear wheel, and got better mileage. but more important, it ran super sweet, actually perfect.... best running guzzi I ever rode.... a PC properly mapped guzzi is like a new machine, ride one, you'll get the bits...
 
rguzz wrote:
If I supply my ECU for exchange/reflash, how will this affect dash engine management? Will it know where it was on refitting?
I also have 18month of warranty remaining.Just worried if this will f it up.
Also could someone outline what exactly is physically done to air intake system.
The ECU exchange, and what it can do, remains an exciting possibility.
The dash/speedo assy. is independent of the ECU.
For warranty, I suppose a *good* dealer might be able to figure out the 02-sensor had been disabled (or not working), but in the end, the revised fueling is light-years better for the bike. That call would be up to you I guess. The PC-V AutoTune can be easily removed for those who are concerned with warranty issues.
Open air-box lids have shown to give decent gains on the newer Calis on the dyno. This is essentially what we are offering. I will try to post dyno charts for those bikes I can get my hands on locally with this modification.
 
Will your ECU remapping address the excessive lean condition of the Breva 1200 Sport? Yes, I know it may not be perfect but can I expect relief from the excessive popping that causes young chuldren, old ladies, and dogs to run when I approach?


'
 
OK, here is as best as I can remember the contents of an earlier FAQ post I put up about the PCV

Background: I received a couple of PM's with questions about the PCV from local Aussie Guzzista who were under the mistaken belief that I am some sort of guru (Boy oh Boy are you blokes mistaken!!!), however in the best taditions of helping out I put my thinking cap on and did my best such as it is.

Be aware this is from memory as the original went AWOL when the board crashed a week or so ago, anyway here they are.

Todd: as before feel free to correct/edit/add/delete as you see fit!

Q: Fuel consumption is not an issue for me so not interested in multiple mapping - what gives?
A: Well that maybe so, but I am going to use it to build a map for lower octane fuel so I can use it when necessary. At Christmas time we had trouble finding 98 whenever we needed to re-fuel between Brisbane and Armidale and several times had to fill up with 91, the bikes were definitely not happy chappys and we weren't even in the boonies. If your not a traveller and fuel availability isn't an issue, you could for example use it to make a power map for hooning in the twisties and a crusing map for when the SO is on the back - sweet!


Q: Is it easy to install - I'm a mechanical gumby?
A: Yes these things are relatively easy to install, and if you are in BNE I am happy to help, but be aware that to get the best result with adjustment of the complete RPM fuelling (ie above AND below the magic 40% throttle point where the Guzzi ECU goes from closed loop to open loop control) you will have to send your bikes ECU computer to Todd in the USA for alteration - IMO no big deal, it's easy to get out, just unplugs and a couple of mounting bolts to undo. The benefit of going this way rather than waiting for the commmercial release of the PCV (when/if it ever is available and assuming it is compatible with Guzzi?) which won't need this re-programming is that no matter what they do AFAIK they will have to install a second oxygen sensor into the exhaust for the PCV to read - so you will have to have your exhaust modified with a second threaded hole, and while no big deal I recon it's neater to have just one and best of all you can have it now :) rather than at some unknown point in the future.


Q: Will I get more power from installing it?
A: Hmmm well yes a little bit, but IMHO not enough to be of real benefit if you have a stock standard bike - the expected amount has been posted elsewhere in this thread. The primary intention in the 1st instance is to correct the lean fuelling that makes the bike run very hot and pink/ping and more correctly detonate under load - a significant problem in our summer and also to alleviate the popping issue that is commonly reported when closing the throttle (sometimes called a "trailing throttle" by those what are actually gurus - definitely not me as I said above). Furthermore the throttle response should be improved dramatically and the bike will become more of a joy to ride than it is now if that is possible. To get a worthwhile power incease you will have to start fiddling with the engine breathing by installing after market exhaust and/or opening up the air filter etc etc etc, all of which I am sure GT-Rx can help with, of course there are heaps of other suitable farkles available that you can bolt on and will do the job.


Q: Is it plug and play - I don't want to be fiddling around with computers, and do I need the Auto Tune thingummy?
A: Well sort of. Out of the box it is as dumb as a computer can be, and has to be taught how to fuel the bike, so three options.

1) GT-Rx will I am sure have as many generic maps available as he can for as many bike setups as he can get access to and has money/time to put on a dyno - maybe downloadable from this site, but the number of combinations of bike set-ups in terms of exhausts, crossovers etc etc etc mean that your particular setup if it is at all unusual is likely to miss the boat. Next thing to remember is that the Mericans have different fuel from us, and as he is defintely a Merican, the maps he makes in Merica will not be optimised for our high quality Oz fuel, and lastly every bike is slightly different even though it came out of the same factory - something proven over and over again, and so a generic map while a big improvement on stock is never going to be as good as a map built specifically for your particular bike.

2) Take your bike to someone who has a dyno and knows how to make maps for the PC - In Brisbane there is SuperBike dyno tune in Capalaba and I know that Mr Roper has access to a bloke down south, and I am sure there are lots of others that I don't know about (yet). This is simple solution - you roll your bike in, they play with it for a while, you pay them a motsa and viola a custom map is installed and away you go. But here is the rub, change your bike's setup for example with a new exhaust, and it will need to be done a again, and to a certian extent if it happens to be winter when the map is made when summer roles around it won't be perfect - but here I am nit picking I certainly could never tell the difference between a winter and summer map but those in the know would be able to. So fundamentally this is a good route to take and is much better than a generic map and indeed is how it has been done for years and will result in a great custom map for your bike, but certainly not as good as it could be with ............

3) The Auto Tune thingy. Now this IMHO is just the ducks nuts! This little bit of electronic wizardry will adjust the fuelling of the bike to compensate for any change in the operating parameters on the fly while you are riding, and I do mean any parameters - install a new exhaust system, take a quick fang up the Karakoram Pass to 4,693 m/15,397 ft where the air pressure is quite a bit less than sea level where we all tend to live, go out west into the Simpson desert and ride all night in temperatures below freezing, and then ride all day in baking heat and the auto tune will keep the fuelling of the engine bang on regardless, all without you doing anything about it and what's more all on the fly while you ride - AMAZING!

Hope that helps - now what are you waiting for, get your name on the list as I am impatient to get my grubby mits on one :woohoo:
 
Zapa said:
Have you done any with ABS?
I was intrigued about the fact that the factory 1200S Stage I kit ECU cannot be installed in ABS models because it doesn't control ABS. If they could (and they surely do) remap the ECUs why is it not available for ABS models?
I've done (ABS) Norges, which use the same ECU (as so stated on the few I've done), so it doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
Install for the Griso 11 & 8V shown HERE (also linked from the 'Tech' tab above). Stelvio 8V posted HERE. Info soon on the Breva/Norge/Sport 12.
Edit: Picture of the mounting locations for PC-V w/AT & PC-V alone on a non-ABS Breva/Sport 12:

S12 PCVMount BNS12 PC V AT
 
I have an '08 1200 Sport with about 16k miles on the clock. Todd recently completed a re-flash of the bikes ECU and installed a PC-V + Autotune, and the CNC machined airbox lid. The motorbike has always performed well, albeit with the well documented chronic popping through the exhaust on trailing throttle, and some surging at very low speeds/rpm's. I did about 250 miles today on our freeway system here in southern California, city streets and a couple passes on Ortega Highway - about 60 miles of third and fourth gear twists and turns.

The "popping" is now past-tense; completely eliminated. The bike idles perfectly at 1,000 rpm; pulls smoothly from idle and exhibits zero surging at any rpm above 1,500. At a 5 mph 'crawl' and the tach showing 1,000-1,500 rpm there is a small amount of surging with the clutch fully engaged. Exponentially better then before these mods. The flat spot in the power curve, from about 3,500 - 4,000 rpm, seems mostly gone. What I notice most, or not notice anymore, is the abruptness when first getting (back) on the throttle. You throw the bike into a corner, neutral throttle, and then grab a 'hand-full' - nothing but smooth throttle transition. Confidence inspiring.

Something else that caught my attention was the new found urgency at full throttle. I have no idea why because at full-throttle there shouldn't be much effect from the PC-V. Maybe it has something to do with the air-box lid. Hitherto the bike ran out of steam right around 7,200 rpm. This is where I programmed my shift-light. It now pulls to 7,200+ noticeably quicker, and continues to pull strongly to just beyond 7,500 rpm.

As far as fuel numbers, I am not able to give a definitive answer. It seems about normal but I need to do a number of long rides for a legitimate comparison. The 1200 Sport is now just that much more enjoyable. No regrets.
 
Thanks for the (purchase &) post Allan!

Curious if you hooked up the PC-V to a laptop and could see what changes AutoTune made to the map I built? I'll ping you direct e-mail as well.
 
Also, the B11/Norge/Sport12 CNC aluminum open air-box lids will be available for shipping starting the end of next week. Cost is $80 for those in on the PC-V/ECU/AT. See Allan's earlier post on his Sport 1200 for info on how it works. If you want one to be shipped with your kit, send me a note direct. I can also include a BMC filter for the B11/Norge/Sport 12 *OR* Griso (11 or 8V) & Stelvio for an additional 80 US$.
 
2laner, my 'Problems' were of MY making, not Todds. I mis-understood the functioning of the device and simply hadn't bought the full package because I THOUGHT that what i had bought would work for me, it didn't and that is NOT a problem with the device but one of my comprehension of how it functions.

I've been dealing with some pretty serious family issues recently. In effect my business has been closed while I've been caring for my much loved Mum-in-law, that has occupied all my time, I had no 'Spare' time even for work. That situation is now resolved as we finally bit the bullet and she has been transferred to a nursing home as her dementia made it no longer safe for her to be at home with us. I DO have a substantial backlog of work, I have a Nuovo Falcone motor to finish a rebuild on and a Mk I LeMans engine and driveline to Zero Time. When that is finished I HOPE to have time to do further work on my bike!

As it stands I've just picked up another 8V in the USA so what I'll be doing is bringing my PCV over to the US with me and I'll be setting it up, with Todd's help and experience, in LA next time I'm there. My 8V here in Oz obviously has some issues as they all do but at the moment it is running pretty sweetly within the confines of the stock #2 map with a 'Fat-Duc' O2 sensor fooler. Until I have more time I'm satisfied with that as my major concern was the low speed, small throttle opening fuelling which caused erratic running which felt like it was beating the shit out of the driveline. Although it is very sensitive to ambient temperature, (It is also ridiculously easy to adjust, I use the end of my ignition key on the road!) as long as you're someone who doesn't mind fiddling on an almost daily basis it DOES address that problem *adequately* but not perfectly.

I also have a Rapidbike module on order, which will be cost comparable by the time it arrives, but at the moment it ISN'T arriving and I think that the vendor may well of announced its availability BEFORE the product was developed so until I've had a chance to play with that I would advise against that option. I'm financially secure enough to drop the best part of a grand on a turkey! Most people aren't. Let me take the risk and find out. If it is a viable alternative I'll say so.

At the moment though I know that Todd has put a LOT of time and effort into his sollution as well as having a long history of working very hard with Dynatech and the Guzzi community to produce shit that works on a rare and obscure motorbike brand. He's never going to get filthy rich selling PCV's and I certainly don't begrudge him any profit he does make.

I'll re-state again. My problems with the PCV and Auto-tune stemmed from MY misunderstanding. Not through any fault with the product. No, I can't yet confirm that it is the 'Bees Knees' for the reasons stated above but I have a far greater degree of confidence that it WILL work than I do for the RB option but only time will tell.

Pete
 
Hello All,
I am new to the site here and this is my first post.
Have a 09 Griso 8V with a Mistral slip-on. It always backfired a bit, had the "dip" @4000 RPM or so before it picked back up again, and it generally ran inconsistent, especially up in the local Mt. Palomar area in San Diego (4000'+ elevation). It seemed that hot weather really made the bike run bad on the low end and idle. I got frustrated with all this as it just did not run correctly since new. I knew the mapping was suspect.
After being put in touch with Todd via my local dealer, GP Motorcycles of San Diego, I purchased the PCV/AutoTune/Modified ECU and added the BMC filter & GT-Rx air-box ring. Pricey it seemed, but I had to fix this. I installed everything myself with Todd's instructions. I took me a bit of time as I had to call Todd a few times for help, mostly because I do not know this bike or fuel injection. Todd was always available by e-mail or phone. I've had it up and running for (2) weeks now. All earlier mentioned problems I had are solved. No backfire, and it runs clean and strong all the way up to redline.
I don't notice that "dip" @4000 anymore either. It seems to pull harder also. It's getting better with each ride.
I'm totally happy with this set-up. My Griso does not feel subtle or flat anymore.
Todd was always there for me.
Sorry about the long post. Just trying to give all my full experience.
 
I've put 1200Km+ with the system on and I'm quite happy with the way it works. The bike is smoother, which was my target when riding on low gears. It revs up as lightning, and gearing down is much smoother than before. Popping is nonexistant, and the slight pinging I had the first ride going back home was gone after the first AT trim update at arrival.
I also installed a manual switch for the stepper motor, which is also a good thing.
My mileage has been reduced a tad, 50Km or so between refills after three AutoTune updates.

I'm satisfied, but I purchased the whole system to fiddle with it -hehe- so there's some experimentation to do. I'm aiming for even MORE finesse when taking off in first and second gears (roundabouts, 180 turns, etc) and I'm also aiming for improved mileage. I'm sure the system will deliver all of that because it's been designed with "making changes" in mind.
 
My updated ECU, PC-V, autotune package arrived Wednesday this week. Picked it up at the Post Office at lunch and called back to work to advise them that something had come up. It took me about 2.5 hours to do the install. No issues with the install, everything went pretty much as illustrated. It is just a bit time consuming to get everything like you want it. The voltmeter/ohm meter was indispensible.
The bike cranked right up and idled smoothly. After a warm up, a 20 mile test ride confirmed the value. Throttle response was much crisper, back firing essentially eliminated, strong pulling with acceleration and the rough spot on the Stelvio between 3000 and 4000 rpm completely gone. Take the Plunge.....
 
I got the PCV/AT/ECU/Airbox lid/Filter/Exhaust installed on the Stelvio. I took a few days as I work slow and I was taking great care as to where things got mounted and where cables ran. I fired it up for the first time, and it seems to be running great. It was late and pouring rain, and I still have to get the body work back on, so no rides yet. The bike is still new (20 miles on the odo), so it may be a while before I can post any real results. But no complaints so far. A couple of notes:

I shortened the wires from the O2 sensor to the AT. The wire tips were soldered, so I had to re-solder them to get them to easily slide into the AT unit. It's like they have to penetrate a thin rubber membrane, so without the solder they would just squish.

The connector between the O2 sensor and the AT unit is quite large. I mounted it to the frame piece at the bottom shock mount. There are two holes in the frame there, and I ran a couple of zip-ties to secure the connector to the frame. I wanted to seal it up first, so I used some really good electrical tape and wrapped it. Todd says he uses heat-shrink, but I couldn't find any large enough to go around that connector.

I also taped the wires around the injectors, just to clean up that area a bit. And since I'm using Todd's airbox ring, I mounted the PCV where the snorkel used to be, and the AT on the end of where the airbox lid used to be. All clean and tidy.

I'll post more as I get a chance to ride it.
 
I see a few others beat me to posting their impressions! So far my experience is all good. I got the whole kit for my 2008 1200 Sport - Power Commander, Auto-tune, airbox lid (a thing of beauty), and revised ECU. I'm running a K&N air filter and Agostini slip-on with the baffle removed. I removed the charcoal canister and associated plumbing long ago which helped reduce popping and surging at idle. After the install ALL popping is gone and idle is dead steady.

Took about 2 hours or so to do the install. The hardest part is routing the wire from the oxygen sensor as it has a big honking connector on it making it difficult to route around things. Using a hint from Todd I fastened the air temperature sensor (that fits into a hole in the plastic airbox cover) with velcro to the aluminum airbox lid. That lid is a thing of beauty and sure takes up a lot less room than the plastic snorkel and associated bits.

When I first started the bike after installing everything the dash said "SERVICE" in big letters and the "!" red triangular warning light came on. Upon resetting the time clock and running through two or three start/stop cycles the warnings went away. Guess it had something to do with having the ECU removed?

Checked the TPS with the VDST and found it still spot on. Calibration of the PC to throttle position was easy and adjusting the maps is cake.

I'm working on two maps. The first map is the "power" map. After putting on 150 miles and stopping several times to accept the trims I sent the map to Todd. He made a few adjustments which helped smooth things out at low speeds just above idle.

My bike has never pulled so strongly in the lower gears! Running through the gears I kept bumping into the rev limiter. Never had that problem prior the mod! It pulled strongly all the way to the top. Got a measured 45 miles per gallon. Typically prior to the mods I would get from 47 - 52 mpg. I'm now working on an "economy" map to use when touring. Making adjustments is easy and I find the kit really helps the overall driveability of this bike. :D
 
dimitris said:
Is there any pic of the airbox lid?
Newest versions for the Breva 1100, Norge & Sport 1200 -- purchase info;

 
The Norge is now back together and back on the road after installing the PC-V and the modified ECU. It's bloody hot in Adelaide today so I've not taken the bike for much of a ride yet but what I can say is that the popping on deceleration has disappeared and the bike runs much more smoothly at suburban speeds. :) The idle was initially a bit fast but it settle down after a 50 km run. Average fuel consumption does not appear to be significantly changed - maybe gone up about 0.2 L/100km from 6.8 to 7.0.

The install was fiddly but pretty unremarkable. The major challenges were getting the RHS connection back into the ECU and removing the RHS TPS plug - the clip is on the engine side and hidden from view. I had to prise it open with a long screwdriver approaching it from the top going down beside the airbox.

I'd never seen a posi-tap connector before so had to work through that one from first principles, also there wasn't anywhere near the free play in the TPS plug wires as it appears there is in Todd's instruction photo. That made access very difficult and fitting the posi-tap was a PITA.

Overall, it has definitely improved the ridability of the bike - thanks Todd for taking this on.

Now, a question or two on the VDSTS - I connected it up (BTW it would not recognise the connection until I clicked on the "Brand/ECU/Model" button then it all came good) and the TPS reading was 4.6. Now, what is this telling me? Does it mean I don't have to do a reset or is it just reading the factory preset on the LHS?

Regards
 
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