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Here is one to get you thinking

Discussion in '24-7 Lounge' started by NPS, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    When going at walking speed, if you pull on the left bar you go left. At 30 mph try this and you go right. This is due to the reaction to the gyroscopic force of the front wheel. This does apply to jap bikes as well as Guzzis!

    Now there must be a speed where if you pull on the left bar you will go.
    1. Left
    2. Right
    3. Straight line
    4. None of these - you pulled too hard and crash

    Discuss in less than 1000 words:)
     
  2. dloftus

    dloftus Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Really though at walking speed the only reason you go left is because you leaned enough to not fall over to the right at which point if you prevent yourself from falling over you're turning right!

     
  3. Mi_ka

    Mi_ka High Miler

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  4. guzzibob

    guzzibob GT Reference

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    This is called countersteering, & is one of the first things taught at the Motorcycle Safety Foundation rider courses. You use it whether you realize it or not-it's physics. Hopefully you use it better when you understand it.
     
  5. YBFAST

    YBFAST Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    :lol: :lol: I see what you're saying. If I get your drift... at some speed there is a transition between the tendency to travel either left or right.
    I've experienced the same effect walking after too many Guiness (an induced wobble) :p
     
  6. DanPez

    DanPez Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Let me give it a shot :lol:
    When moving fast the force pushing the Center of Gravity of the motorcycle out is more than the force pulling the Center of Gravity down (toward the inside of the turn) so the bike will lean to the outer of the turn ...... to the right when the front wheel points to the left.

    That centrifugal force is what makes counter-steering work. I'm not sure it would be called gyroscopic force ......doing a 1/2 mile wheelie while the front wheel is continuously rotating can be called gyroscopic? :woohoo:
     
  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Dan,

    You are close. Since it is a single track vehicle, inertia of motion will cause the bike to want to go straight. When you turn the handlebar left thus causing a lean out to the right and a right turn. Also in play is friction of the tires and other things, but basically correct.

    BTW, forget centrifugal force. It isn't a real force. It is a term to describe a balance of inertia of motion in a straight line, and centripetal force. An everyday example of centripetal force is gravity, without it the earth would just travel in a straight line tangent to the current orbital path.
     
  8. hairybiker

    hairybiker Just got it firing!

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    This is my understanding.
    What you describe is counter-steering, as mentioned earlier. Counter-steering is the use of the gyroscopic forces already present in the rotating wheel. This can be experienced by holding a spinning bicycle wheel in both hands by the axle and applying pressure to either the right or left hand end of the axle. You feel the wheel roll in the opposite direction to that which you might expect. ie. if pressure is applied to the right hand end of the axle, the top of the wheel will roll to the right.
    Due to the gyroscopic forces present, the reaction to the applied pressure occurs at 90degrees to the applied pressure.
    At what speed of rotation this phenomena takes over from the tendency to go where the front wheel is pointed i don't know, but in my experience it isn't much over walking pace as it can be experienced even when pulling out of junctions.
    Just my 2p worth...... :)

    IanB.
     
  9. theoneandonlymin

    theoneandonlymin Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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  10. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    YBFast was closest to what I was asking. This was the interesting part that I was getting to.

     
  11. iainw

    iainw Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Put more simply, the rotating wheels keep the bike upright. That's what ABS is for, to keep the wheels turning, if your front locks up, down you go, unless you are super skilled in the balance department. Anyway, by counter steering, you are effectively knocking the bike off balance, causing it to fall, or lean to one side, then you can turn it..... or you have to turn it! :)
     
  12. lomax

    lomax Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Now throw a side car into the mix. :twisted: chair down, chair in the air :lol:

    Marc
     

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