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How is the 8v better than the 4v? - or isn't it?

Discussion in 'Griso-Bella Chat & Tech' started by Renevator, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Renevator

    Renevator Just got it firing! GT Famiglia

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    I asked this question over on GrisoGhetto, with some very informative answers, so I'm keen to know from folks on here too. I'm in the UK by the way.

    I joined this forum back in 2015, when I had one of the last 1100's back in 2015 - but sadly only for about 6 months as, for financial reasons (or rather lack of finances), I had to sell it. So now I'm saving up for another.

    I'm aware that when looking to buy an 8v it ideally needs to be a later rollerised jobby, as even with one's that have been changed from flat tappets, there's a slight risk of depending on who did the conversion/previous engine wear etc. Ideally I'd love to get a tenni, as that colour scheme is just beautiful, but although it seems most people would buy an 8v over a 4v because it's a better all round package, here's a thought:

    If I'm working to a budget of £6000 (ish), is there actually any merit in buying an 1100 4v for say, £4000 (ish), and using that as a more affordable basis to improve fuelling, suspension, exhaust etc, I know the extra £2k won't go far, not least to get me those lovely wire wheels, Radial brakes, and the extra ooomph!, but just thinking out loud about best bang for buck long term, as it were. If I had £10k for a bike it would be a different prospect of course.

    Also, and this may well be a deal breaker, is the fuel consumption on the 8v really that horrendous?

    I've read quite a few comments about how dismal the tank range is, especially if you use all that extra power, so I'm wondering, for a very average rider, is it actually better to go for the more economical 4v? - will I really miss that extra power? - even though it's probably a better engine when taking it easy too.

    Or does a well set up, properly fuelled (i.e. Todds magic goods), 8v, give as good mileage as a 4v, thereby giving a resounding thumbs up to the 8v over any well prepped 4v?

    Would be interested in any views on these 2 Griso's. I'm a way of, a long way off, being able to afford one, but it's fun learning as much as I can.

    Cheers
     
  2. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I believe there is a misprint on your location
     
  3. Renevator

    Renevator Just got it firing! GT Famiglia

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    Thanks Kevin.
     
  4. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    On the merits of the OP's question, I have 28K on a 2010 (rollerized) 1200, but -- years before I bought my 8v, I rode an 1100 as a loaner while my Norge was being serviced.

    That brief experience was, erm, brief and, obviously, too much so to base much beyond an initial impression.

    But my initial impression of the 1100 was mostly this: "buzzy" and not especially anything else. I wish I could ride one now after my miles on its successor to confirm or correct that memory, but fairly or unfairly it has stuck with me. I also remember -- perhaps incorrectly -- that it had much wider bars than does my 8v.

    I have had heard many say "how refined" the 8v seems to them. Refined? That is quite possibly the last word I would use to describe my 1200 Griso. Now, perhaps those folks mean in some "engineering" way. OK. But, from a riding perspective, astride it, my Griso seems almost crude .. but in a visceral and exhilarating way.

    I will say that no other Guzzi in my moto-harem -- and I like them all; lots -- makes me grin (or scream in occasional terror) as much. :clap:

    Supper calls, so that likely unhelpful anecdotal memory and review will have to do for now. '

    Bill
     
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  5. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Just got it firing!

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    The best part of the 2VC Guzzis is the light weight. The engine was originally conceived as a “hard-use” powerplant. It is understressed, but still produces a strong midrange. However, it really runs out of steam at about 6000 rpms. A cam will open up the top end and a guy like Todd can get 90 horsepower out of one. All that said, the Tonti frame is really the reason to own a 2-valve Big Block. If you keep the weight under 600 lbs and put on a good set of tires, the handling is sublime. Choose a V1100 California and use the V1100 Stone handlebars. They are a great deal better than the ridiculous beach bars that are most commonly used, but are available in the unusual 30mm diameter. My Vintage goes 200 miles per tank of fuel and delivers 46mpg. I’ve had mine on three multi week tours and found the power to be adequate, but was delighted to discover that after taking off the saddlebags, mounts, and a few other doo-dads the bike became a scratcher that was reminiscent of my old Commando.

    DA85F6E3-8633-4E52-AED8-A33300F556EB.jpeg
     
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  6. Renevator

    Renevator Just got it firing! GT Famiglia

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    Yes, I've read the same, that many seem to think the 8v is better engineered than the 4v. I've got to say I really liked the 4v I had, and that too was unsurprisingly WAY more refined than the MK2 LeMans I had back in the 80's. There's so much to learn - I keep coming across hints and tips on here and GrisoGhetto about specific issues with each one - all builds on my knowledge of what to look for when the time comes. Mind you, I know I'll probably be pretty limited to choice - they aren't exactly common in the UK :)

    Thanks for your input Bill.

    Lovely Vintage you have there Sheepdog, and another approach I've not considered. Sadly, being in the UK, I'm pretty limited to how much of Todd's services I can make use of. Although if I win the lottery one of the first things would be to place an order for one of his custom builds :). The reason I like the Griso so much is because of that unusual balance and originality in it's styling - to me it's a perfect balance between a relaxed cruiser and a more sports oriented machine. Anyway, it's all subjective. I'll have a look at a V11 California, taking your points on board. Not considered one I must admit.
     
  7. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    A friend in the UK has a 1200 Sport, 2 valves per head, but with the Guzzi factory performance upgrade. Don't think any of the roller 8 valves will be better.
     
  8. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    I have some of everything Moto Guzzi. In reality, my favorite engines are the 1200 Sport 2V, and the California Vintage 2V. They are wonderful, under-stressed motors, and the 1200 Sport just sings the most melodious exhaust note through its stock exhaust.

    That being said, I do love both of my 4V engines, the V10 Centauro and my 1200 Stelvio NTX, but I still find myself drawn to the rugged simplicity of the 2V engines. Like Sheepdog, I love my California Vintage.

    I must admit to never really paying attention to the fuel economy but in all of the years of riding, I've never been distressed by the fuel economy of the 4V engines.

    As for radial brakes etc... The standard Brembo brakes on the 2V engine bikes, will stop excellent every time. Everything more complex is just icing and not really cake. Ultra-fancy brakes are superfluous in my opinion unless you are riding a sport motorcycle on a race track, pushing their abilities to the limit. Otherwise, Brembo is Brembo and they are excellent brakes, even their lower-end standard OEM versions.

    It seems to me that you are looking for a daily driver or commuting machine. If this is the case, the 2V engine will serve you very well for the $ you have to give for one, and operational costs will be at a minimum.

    Good Luck!
     
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  9. Chris Wilson

    Chris Wilson Tuned and Synch'ed

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    For me it's not the number of valves that determine the difference but where ignition emminates from.
    2 valve engines like twin plugs whereas 4 valves do well with one.
    I have a 2 valve twin plug engine and with standard Guzzi valve angle I sincerely doubt that 4 valves would breathe significantly better due to charge transition raising it's ugly head once revs go beyond 7,000.
    But obviously the 4 valve engine being later will be more refined.
     
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  10. Renevator

    Renevator Just got it firing! GT Famiglia

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    It's interesting you should say that, as I'm now in the lucky position of NOT having to commute, so not really limiting myself to a bike that's a do it all, everyday kinda bike. Though it will still be my only one and I will be using it as much as possible. :). Thanks for the info regarding those engines, & the common sense re brakes. I'm beginning to think it will pretty much come down to what's available at the time, but the Griso really does appeal visually, and the one I had was a surprise in how well it fitted me. I'd expected to be more ill at ease with it, especially after the VFR. It's almost, in my eyes, a perfect combination of really useable road bike, with the looks of some sort of custom/special build. Though I'm surprised at how much I like the California Vintage, having never considered that style of bike before.
    Oh well, I've got moths to ponder all the options - thanks for the advice.
     
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  11. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    I always say,

    “Ride what you love so that you’ll love what you ride.”
     
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  12. TonyJuicy

    TonyJuicy Just got it firing!

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    Renevator, I have a 1200 Sport 8v. I have no experience of the 2v but my experience on 8v fuel consumption is as follows, based on 22k miles of riding.

    1. the fuel consumption in the dash is US mpg so looks worse to UK riders.

    2. fuel consumption varies significantly with use so there is no representative average figure. Cold starts seem to hurt fuel consumption, as does City riding. Here are the figures I have seen regularly.

    3. Riding briskly out of town with the fuelling amended/enriched 45 mpg (UK)

    4. Riding briskly out of town with stock fuelling 50 mpg (UK). Tank size 5 galls UK.

    5. Riding all day, highways or freeways/motorways, ("touring"), with stock fuelling riding like regular bikers not trying to race anyone 55 mpg UK (I'd look to refill tank around 240 miles). With fuelling enriched I'm refilling after 200 miles).

    6. Riding gently wholly on empty freeway/motorway, stock fuelling, highest figure was 60 mpg UK, refilled tank at 290 miles. Not recommended!

    Tony
     
  13. TonyJuicy

    TonyJuicy Just got it firing!

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    You mentioned the VFR. My previous bike was a 1998 VFR 800 Fi gear cams (5th Generation). I loved that bike. It is still sitting in my garage. The VFR and the Guzzi Sport are very different experiences.

    Tony
     
  14. DeadEye

    DeadEye High Miler

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    Someone made a comment about the MPG calculation, it would seem that for the 2017 V7 :

    “Average fuel consumption (Avg fuel)
    Unit of measurement for the counter: Km/l, L/100 km, US mpg or IMP mpg
    - View: on LCD display.
    • This value is stored.
    • Press and hold down the "MODE" button to reset the value.
    • This parameter is displayed as shown in the figure:
    - the message "AVERAGE KM/L", "AVERAGE L/100" or "AVERAGE MPG" is dis- played.”

    All the aberations are supported !
     

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