How To Recover The 5 Digit Security Code

[Nordicnorm]

Thanks Scott, fair enough, I'm always interested as to just what it is. I was hoping it was some type of commercially supported effort.
Yes, for the whole 50 cents MPH makes on the relay bypass, I'm happy to send people his way.

Mike Haven made my B-11 totally reliable in 2014, after 4 no start incidents over a period of 1+1/2 years. Every time I was waiting in the ferry line-up for the "Loading!" call, I was chewing my fingernails to my elbows. He is entitled to reap the rewards for his invention, without anyone infringing. Nice to see we are all in agreement on that.

 

[Moto-Uno]

Especially since as motorcyclist we have loading privileges with B.C ferries . Peter

 

[crownryal]

I’m brandy new to all this, but I have to chime in. I’ve been riding and wrenching on many Italian and German machines for a few decades and have to say…there are faults in the Guzzi system. I can get down with the user code, I even hazard to say it’s kinda cool. The issue is that I’ve done a lot of searches and reading and a lot of the time people have both keys and are still stuck. You should be able to reprogram the immobilizer with both keys, but it doesn’t always stick . I have both keys and still have no access to the user menu. I’ve even read about dashes that refuse to store the selected code and ask for it to be entered over and over…I don’t think the blame can be totally placed on the end user. With all that being said, I’m sending me dash to carmo for surgery…

 

[scottmastrocinque]

It’s NOT about 2 keys. I have 2 keys.

It’s about 2 DIFFERENT TRANSPONDER CODES that are registered to the dashboard.

Getting a CLONED key, IS NOT a second key! It’s TWO of the SAME KEY (That’s why it’s called a CLONED key) as far as the security system in the dash is concerned.

I don’t care what people write elsewhere…

I have enough of these Italian motorcycles with the same setup, to assure you that they do in fact work perfectly if you have the right working materials. This is not anecdotal but fact.

 

[tris]

Just a word as to the importance of all this

I filled my B11 up and got an antenna fault which meant I couldn't re-start the bike.
No worry I thought stick the code in and we're good to go ...... couldn't remember it
I had to walk home, get the cage and the trailer and go back to drag it home

Word to the wise though.
Every so often for a number of months, the bike would flash an antenna error but nothing happened so put I it down to a Guzzi idiosyncrasy
The root cause was that the spring in one of the female spade connectors had broken.
Ultimately it stopped making any connection therefore breaking the continuity in the antenna circuit resulting in no start
Changed the spade connector and all good
Also used both the keys to create a new code I COULD remember once I had fixed it!!

 

[Gavin]

Okay....here’s a new one (I think).
I checked with the previous owner and original dealer regarding the security code
Last owner never used one or needed one and dealer states ‘supplied new for owner to instal’

Strange question....how do I even know if one is installed? Let alone recover it?

Bike was supplied with both keys and a Meta alarm bypass loop......all paperwork and a smiling seller

If not installed...should I instal one....bike theft in the UK is rife ....but not so .....for sleepy baggers like the Cali1400
Now if it was a twist and go drug dealers special......it wouldn’t have lasted a week before it would have taken by a man bag and tracksuit wearing pond life scum.

Take care

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I have no idea what you said there. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You do not "install" anything.

The dash has a security system immobilizer integrated into it. It's not added, or installed or any other such nonsense. When the motorcycle was first purchased, the bike dash would have asked for a new code to be selected and input.

As previously stated multiple places on the forums, in order to program a new key, you must have either the security code and one unique transponder key which is already programmed to the dash, or two different transponder keys both programmed to the dash, which will allow you to recover the security code.

 

[Gavin]

Well that response seems to answer the questions raised
The Germans, Dutch and Scots among us, will be appreciative of the no nonsense approach

However....it would appear that this issue causes concern for many

I do not need a new key as yet and I will refer to the answer if I do
Thanks for responding

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[scottmastrocinque]

You are welcome.

 

[MikeTT]

I checked with the previous owner and original dealer regarding the security code
Last owner never used one or needed one and dealer states ‘supplied new for owner to instal’

Strange question....how do I even know if one is installed? Let alone recover it?

When you switch on the ignition, if the dash immediately shows the phrase 'enter personal key', then the previous owner didn't enter one. If the message doesn't show, then a personal key was entered at some stage. If it is unknown then you can reset it using the two different transponder keys, which have to registered to the dashboard (instructions in the manual). You can't recover the personal key from the dash, it has to be known or reset.

 

[James Chance]

James,

I posted my outcome with Carmo Electronics around four years ago...

See: https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/user-code-screw-up.17453/page-2#post-149630

and, FYI, your 23 year old offspring probably owes you over $400 to get the problem straightened out now.

dave

Oh, don't worry, he'll be paying for this whole adventure... ;-)

Jim

 

[James Chance]

An update to my situation... The 2nd key has been found. My dash does NOT ask for a key code when first coming up (with the lost key). As the bike is buried in the shed at the moment (being winter here and all), I've not yet tried the 2nd key yet. From reading here (and on other Guzzi boards), it looks likely the dealer set a code of some sort for the first key. I have a rubber tag on the 2nd key's keyring showing a 8xxxx number. Do all new Moto Guzzi key blanks come encoded with a new unique key number? Or is this tiny rubber tag the likely number the dealer encoded for the first one? I plan to dig the bike out tomorrow and experiment a bit, as the weather is supposed to be decent. I just don't want to get into an immobilized mode with extended screwing around... ;-)

Jim

 

[Mackers]

...rubber tag on the 2nd key's keyring showing a 8xxxx number.

When I had another key cut, the locksmith used this tag, but for what purpose I don't know.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

An update to my situation... The 2nd key has been found. My dash does NOT ask for a key code when first coming up (with the lost key). As the bike is buried in the shed at the moment (being winter here and all), I've not yet tried the 2nd key yet. From reading here (and on other Guzzi boards), it looks likely the dealer set a code of some sort for the first key. I have a rubber tag on the 2nd key's keyring showing a 8xxxx number. Do all new Moto Guzzi key blanks come encoded with a new unique key number? Or is this tiny rubber tag the likely number the dealer encoded for the first one? I plan to dig the bike out tomorrow and experiment a bit, as the weather is supposed to be decent. I just don't want to get into an immobilized mode with extended screwing around... ;-)

Jim

I don’t know where you have been reading but you’ve got it completely wrong.

I cannot count the number of times I’ve explained this but I will make a note to remember this for reference.

The dash is a very simple computer. It uses an antenna in the ignition switch to read a transponder chip which is encased in the key head.

Each key has a unique transponder code. This is different from the physical cut in the key.

CLONED KEYS are exactly that. Both the physical cut of the key AND the transponder code, is completely duplicated from one key to another. THIS IS NOT HAVING TWO KEYS!

This is having TWO OF THE SAME KEY from the dashboard’s point of view. CLONED KEYS look identical to it. They are indistinguishable from each other.

The rubber tag with the number on it, originally attached to your original keys, is the key CUT CODE. It gives information to a locksmith on how to cut the groves.

The dash is capable of recording 4 unique transponder codes. So, this means that 4 different keys can be programmed into the dash memory. Each of those 4 keys will have the exact same groove cut into them so they fit into the ignition and lock tumblers, but they must have different and unique transponder codes.

The dash requires a User Code to be entered when it was first put into service. It asks for a new code everytime the motorcycle is started until one is entered, then it asks no more.

This code serves a programming function as well as an override function. 2 very different functions

If you have a cut key (one that obviously fits the tumblers), but its transponder is not programmed to the dash, then you can insert the key. The dash will recognize that it is an unregistered transponder (key) and ask you for your User Code. You can then enter the stored user code, and this will override the dash security and allow the unprogrammed key to start the engine. It will also allow you to then program the key to the dash.

If you have lost the user code, you can use the function inside the dash menu, to recover the user code. It requires two exactly cut keys with different transponder codes which have already been previously programmed into the dash memory.

(Remember, you can have up to 4 different transponder coded keys programmed at the same time in the dash.).

So when the menu function of Code Recover is selected, it will ask you for the first key, which you insert and turn on and off, then it will ask you for the second key which you do the same thing. It will then allow you to enter a new code which it will then store in the dash as the new User Code.

——————-

So, in your case…if you have found the second key, it MUST BE ALREADY PROGRAMMED IN THE DASH or it will not start the motorcycle without the User Code.

The ONLY WAY an unprogrammed key will start the motorcycle is with the stored User Code.

You can defeat this whole security system code thing and start the motorcycle by unplugging the dash but none of the dash functions will work and if you plug the dash in on a running motorcycle, the engine will again be stopped and disabled from starting again, instantly.

There is no method available to any Moto Guzzi dealer whatsoever, to remove a user code from the dashboard.

There is no method to reprogram the dash to erase a user code by any Moto Guzzi dealer.

Carmo in the Netherlands, actually systematically opens the dashboard and directly jumpers onto the chip where the user code is stored, and then reads the stored data in the chip, literally bit by bit on the chip. They then reseal the dash and reprogram new keys and/or provide the stored user code to the owner and guarantee their dash repair and reseal for 1 year.

This is how the system actually works.

We should just make this explanation a Sticky for reference. It comes up all the time as motorcycles change hands without keys or codes.

 

[Gavin]

Very informative and I agree.....this thread should be a sticky

Much appreciated and well explained

 

[MikeTT]

From reading here (and on other Guzzi boards), it looks likely the dealer set a code of some sort for the first key.

The personal code is not for the key, it's for the electronic dashboard. Once set the personal code can be reset by using both keys using the procedure as described in manual.
Keys can only be registered to belong to the bike by using the personal code. The initial manufactures code is 00000.
If both keys can be used to start the bike, then both are registered and belong to the bike.

I have a rubber tag on the 2nd key's keyring showing a 8xxxx number

the rubber tag has nothing to do with the personal key, the tag contains the key code for cutting the key.

So, first check that both keys can start the bike. If they do, they belong (registered) to the bike.
Next, follow the procedure in the manual to reset the personal key, and write the 5 digit number down, in the bike's manual, and keep it in a safe place.
Hope that helps.

 

[Raven]

Excellent explanation.

 

[Moto-Uno]

As to be expected "Scotts'" description is excellent ! If this keeps up I may actually set a code
for my supplied keys . Not gonna rush into it though . Peter

 

[Nordicnorm]

You have finally broken through my personal wall of ignorance! Not an easy task.... And thank you for making this a sticky.
Turns out both my bikes (they were originally sold by two different Canadian dealers) have had the last 5 digits of the serial number programmed as the user code. I have been a little scared of getting in there to mess with it.

 

[kiwi dave]

Turns out both my bikes (they were originally sold by two different Canadian dealers) have had the last 5 digits of the serial number programmed as the user code.

Yeah, that was quite common. But I never left mine with that code installed.